Agreed.

--- Agreed

Do you agree that this concludes the Department of Government Services?

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Thank you. I would like to thank the Minister and his witness. What is the committee's wish now? Mr. Todd.

I would like to proceed, Mr. Chairman, with the Department of Culture and Communications, please.

Does the committee agree?

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Mr. Allooloo, would you like to make your opening remarks?

Department Of Culture And

Communications

Minister's Opening

Remarks

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to have the opportunity to introduce the capital budget for the Department of Culture and Communications for 1992-93. The Department of Culture and Communications is mandated to preserve, promote and develop northern culture and arts, to improve broadcast communications and availability of information, and to strengthen national and international understanding of the Northwest Territories. Projects that are being put forward for 1992-93 are only the crucial items important to the fulfilment of the department's mandate.

The total capital shown in the estimates is $2.3 million. Based upon the standing committee on finance's review and its recommendations, I will be introducing motions to reduce the capital estimates of the department by $1,002,000, resulting in a reduced total of $1,302,000. The approved estimates for 1991-92 totalled $2,112,000. The revised 1992-93 estimates show an $810,000, or 38 per cent, reduction from 1991-92.

Projects included in the estimates for 1992-93 include planning money for the Cape Dorset community museum; artifacts and archival materials purchases; contributions to historic building projects in Fort Good Hope and Pelly Bay, and community museums contributions.

Library activity projects planned for 1992-93 include renovation of the Baker Lake library; furniture purchases to complete the Iqaluit public library project: minor renovations to the

government library; and community consultation regarding future Cambridge Bay regional library plans that properly address the integration of public and school libraries. A major public library expansion is being undertaken in Arviat.

Improved access to the library catalogue will be provided to 23 libraries during 1992-93, and microform readers willb e placed in communities to enhance study and research opportunities of library patrons. Contributions will be provided to communities for renovations and to assess community library needs.

In the television and radio services activity, funding is included for the purchase of replacement community radio and television satellite receiving and retransmission facilities, and for broadcast equipment to support northern television producers, including aboriginal broadcasters.

At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would be pleased to answer any questions that the committee may have. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Todd.

Comments From The Standing Committee On

Finance

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When the standing committee on finance looked at Culture and Communications, we were somewhat concerned about the approach that was taken with some of its capital expenditures; in particular, the library facilities. It appeared there was little discussion that went on, certainly at the bureaucratic level, between the bureaucracy of Culture and Communications and schools or the Department of Economic Development visitors' centres.

It appeared to us that little or no consideration was given by the department to plan the integration of community libraries with other facilities, such as schools. We have a library facility in Rankin Inlet that works very well within the Maani Ulujuk High School, and functions very well. It seems to us that there was little or no discussion with respect to that.

We were going to be looking at building a high school in Pond Inlet, and separate libraries there. We have built the high school expansion in Arviat, and now we are doing a stand-alone building, a library, in Arviat. Yet, we had a visitors' centre going in there last year.

It was the contention of the standing committee on finance that the cost of stand-alone facilities not only affects the capital cost, but it also affects the ongoing operation and maintenance costs. Clearly there has to be a better integration in getting better value for money with respect to library services. We all recognize library services as an essential service both for our children and for our adults in the communities.

Given these difficult times, as we have consistently been told by the Minister of Finance and the government, we were also somewhat concerned about a $2.4 million renovation and expansion to the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre. We were told that the requirement for this renovation/expansion was Fire Marshal-driven and that this was required because there were artifacts stored in trailers. We were not sure, and still are not sure at this particular time, given other priorities, that this, in fact, was money well spent.

The committee will recommend, through resolution, that all free-standing libraries be deferred until a policy is in place to integrate them with schools or other suitable facilities. It will also recommend that further renovations to the heritage centre be put on hold, pending development of a policy integrating museum development in the NWT, as was recommended in the 1991-92 standing committee on finance report. I love that. It is always a delight to know that I am consistent with my good friend, Mr. Pollard, on these issues.

Motion To Defer Construction Of Free-Standing Libraries Until Policy Is In Place To Integrate Them With Schools, Carried

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, if I may: I move that the committee recommends to the Department of Culture and Communications that the construction of all free-standing libraries be deferred until a policy is in place to integrate them with schools or other suitable facilities.

Your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Not only was the standing committee last year aware that we could have a more efficient operation if we integrated some of the services that were being delivered by different departments, but there had been an experiment 12 years ago, in fact, where the library services out of Hay River, on an experimental basis, handled the budget for school library books, to see how that would work, and there were no real hitches in it; but because at that time we had an even more solidified, unchanging, very difficult-to-move departmental structure, it was very difficult to get some agreement on who should do what to whom. So now that we have a real intention to act more like an integrated government across departmental lines, and so on, and since there is already a recommendation to look at amalgamating Culture with Education, this seems to me to make sense and takes us on from what we tried to do 12 years ago but for various reasons were not able to accomplish. So I very much support the motion. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Just one final point. The resolution was passed last year by the standing committee on finance. Somebody chose to ignore it. I want to put the government on notice, this year they had better not ignore the recommendations that we bring forward with respect to this particular issue and other issues.

Agreed.

Order please. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, one of the things that I have concern about with regard to the motion is that in some of the communities where those facilities, libraries, are in the school, you do not ever see people in communities going into a school to go to the library. Whether it is a separate facility or part of the school facility, it would be difficult for even the schools to volunteer to stay until nine o'clock or something like that to operate the library. In a lot of cases, most of the education areas of a school get shut down. They have these big steel sliding doors that cut off the community from certain areas of the school.

I just wanted to say that in a community like Fort Providence, for example, the community people have a very difficult time going to the schools as it is, and the only time that you see them is when they have teachers' day or report card day. That is the only time, I know the intent of the motion is that all libraries should be integrated with schools or suitable facilities. I have problems with that, so I am not going to vote against the motion, Mr. Chairman, but I am not going to support it, either.

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Chairman, I am going to take a different position than my colleague from Deh Cho. I think it is important that we make some decisions about policy matters in this particular area. If, for instance, we are developing cultural centres in communities and address the matter of language development or teaching centres, then we should try to consider the relationship of good research materials and good information in those areas. We should allow for access by communities and those people involved in those kinds of institutions.

The other point I want to make is that unless it is clear about how this government is going to deal with libraries generally, then it makes it very difficult for people in the communities to approach government to address their needs in terms of libraries, information or research material. I support the motion in that it is requesting this government to develop a clear policy as to how we are going to deal with this particular matter.

I agree with one point that Mr. Gargan made; that is, if it is our intention to allow the public to have access to library services and library material, then it should be based on the co-operation and the ability of the communities to have access. At the moment, that is not the case and should be made clear.

Thank you. To the motion,

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

--- Carried

Mr. Todd.

Motion To Develop Policy To Integrate Museum Development In The NWT, Carried

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that this committee recommends that further renovations to the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre be put on hold pending the development of a policy integrating museum development in the NWT.