Good afternoon. Before I start orders of the day, I would like to welcome to the Legislative Assembly, Mr. Noel O'Sullivan, chairman; Ms. Debra Simpson, vice-chairperson; and Dr. Loretta Foley, superintendent, of the Catholic school district. The Catholic school district is celebrating 40 years of Catholic education in the city of Yellowknife.

--- Applause

Orders of the day for Tuesday, March 31, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I have an emergency statement that I would like to proceed with. Mr. Speaker, I am rising to make an emergency statement to the Assembly on the matter of health care in the Northwest Territories. Over the past two weeks, serious allegations about the quality of hospital service and the treatment of patients have been made publicly and in this Assembly. The result has been an undermining of people's confidence in a medical system which I believe is one of the best in the world.

As a result, the Minister of Health came to me this morning and asked that I relieve him of the responsibility for the Department of Health. I have accepted his decision to step down as Minister of Health, and I will assume responsibility for that department on an interim basis, pending the report of the independent inquiry into abortion procedures at Stanton Yellowknife Hospital.

Mr. Speaker, as a former Minister of Health, I am well acquainted with the people throughout the medical system, and I know that all Members of the Legislative Assembly want to ensure the ' best possible care for people in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Ministers' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have two statements. Mr. Speaker, the special advisor on gender equality was appointed in early 1991. She has been reviewing gender equality issues relating to the justice system. Her process has included research and extensive consultation with players in the justice system and with communities.

The special advisor was due to report to me today. She has been assisted throughout her review by a full-time project coordinator. Recently, however, a serious medical problem has arisen in the family of the co-ordinator, which has taken him out of the Northwest Territories for an indeterminate time. As a result, the special advisor on gender equality has requested an extension of one month to complete her work, and I have granted the extension. When I receive the report, I intend to distribute it to MLAs at the earliest opportunity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker..

If I may, Mr. Speaker, I wish to announce two new policies which will govern the operations and capital funding programs of the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs for municipalities in the Northwest Territories.

The municipal capital and municipal operating assistance policies are comprehensive in scope and significant to Northwest Territories' municipalities. We have held lengthy discussions and consulted widely with municipal leaders in developing these policies.

In 1989, a discussion paper on financing municipal governments was tabled in this Legislative Assembly, outlining options for funding municipalities for capital, operations and maintenance. This paper represented the culmination of work initiated in 1986 to consolidate the many programs of assistance and was intended as a starting point for discussions with municipal leaders.

Early in 1990, at the request of the NWT Association of Municipalities, the department agreed to form a joint committee to review the various proposals in the discussion paper and to make recommendations on preferred funding approaches. The committee's recommendations were submitted to my predecessor, the Hon. Tom Butters, in early 1991. Building on the original discussion paper and the joint committee's recommendations, the department drafted two policies: one for capital and one for operations funding, which were, then, further reviewed by municipal leaders at a series of regional conferences and discussed by the membership at the last two annual meetings of the NWT Association of Municipalities. Final policy proposals were improved and brought to cabinet for approval.

Mr. Speaker, our municipal leaders were unanimous that current programs of assistance were confusing, with a number of different standards, criteria and rules; lacked the certainty of funding communities sought; did not promote the degree of local authority and autonomy that communities desired; and were often unfair in the distribution of funds.

The new policies are built on principles that address these problems. These policies are sensitive to the fiscal constraints of both this government and the municipal level of governments. They promote efficiency and effectiveness, encourage local revenue generation, and recognize varying costs of doing business in communities and varying abilities of communities to contribute to programs or projects. Above all, these new policies are equitable and equal in their application between the largest and the smallest municipalities Municipal Capital Assistance Policy

Mr. Speaker, I wish to highlight the central features of these two important policies. The municipal capital assistance policy governs all department capital programs and builds on and expands the policy approved in principle by cabinet in 1987.

M-CAP, as we call it, provides for communities to assume greater authority over capital projects. Consistent with many of the recommendations of the standing committee on finance, municipalities can enter contribution agreements with the department for full or partial control of capital projects and programs, or, when implemented, a degree of capital block funding. All communities are treated equally with this provision and may exercise varying degrees of control over a project, dependent on their willingness and ability.

Mr. Speaker, not all communities are equal in the costs they face and their ability to contribute to projects. A northern cost index in the policy recognizes varying costs, and fair and reasonable criteria have been developed to determine the relative ability of communities to contribute. Dependent on a municipality's ability to contribute, different contribution requirements for projects are set.

The department also recognizes that it cannot meet all the needs of all the communities. Facilities and other capital infrastructure have been classified as basic, meeting the core needs of municipalities, or additional, meeting other needs. Priority will be given to meeting basic needs, consistent with the recently passed motion of this Assembly during the review of the department's 1992-93 capital budget.

Municipal Operating Assistance Policy

On the other hand, Mr. Speaker, the department will implement the municipal operating assistance policy on April 1, 1992. This policy governs equalization payments for the seven tax-based municipalities and operations funds for 39 other communities, including all hamlets and several designated incorporated settlements.

Equalization payments will be distributed according to a new formula. This formula includes a northern cost index that recognizes the varying cost of providing government services among the seven tax-based municipalities. As well, the formula no longer includes a factor for municipal expenditures, which tended to favour, in the distribution of funds, those municipalities that spent more. While the total amount of funds for the tax-based municipalities does not change, the new formula will redistribute on a basis that fairly equalizes the resources for communities. Other provisions of the new policy will allow block operations and maintenance contribution funding to these tax-based municipalities.

Credit Units Formula

Mr. Speaker, the previous funding distribution formula had a number of serious shortcomings and was not equitable. As a result, a much improved credit units formula has been developed. The formula also includes a northern cost index that recognizes that the costs of government services vary from municipality to municipality. The formula is also sensitive to population and the extra demands increased population places on municipal government.

Perhaps the single, most significant feature of the credit units formula is that it recognizes all the major functions of a government and applies a number of indices to each functional area to determine the relative cost of these services. The old formula fell far short in this regard, using only a select few functional areas of municipal government and a series of standard factors which had questionable value in determining a community's fair share of the available funds. Functional areas such as recreation, community planning and land administration are now included in this new formula.

The old formula used estimates to determine the funding a community would receive for operating its buildings. Actual fuel and power costs for these buildings, averaged over three years, will be used in the new formula, ensuring the fairest and most accurate recognition of costs.

Mr. Speaker, as I noted at the outset, these new policies do not mean new money, but a fairer distribution of that funding the department has. Redistribution means some communities will receive a greater share of the funds available, other communities a lesser share. To ensure that communities can adjust to these new levels of funding with minimal disruption, both the redistribution of equalization and credit units formula funding will be phased in over four years, thereby minimizing actual increases or decreases in any one year. As well, the department will work closely with those communities where funding is lessened to provide any support or assistance required. Later this session, Mr. Speaker, I will be tabling both the municipal capital and municipal operating assistance policies.

In conclusion, the new policies are a significant improvement in how the department finances municipal government. We now have a single comprehensive and consistent approach built soundly on fundamental principles, with formulae that accurately reflect the relative costs of municipal governments and fairly distribute available funds. Municipal leaders have waited many years and contributed significantly to these new financing policies. Qujannamiik.

Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know you would like to join myself and other Yellowknife MLAs, Mr. Speaker, in congratulating the Separate School Board on 40 years of Catholic education. The board of education for the Yellowknife Catholic schools had its first regular board meeting on July 13, 1951. At this time, there were no schools built and no students. Mr. Norman Byrne was the first chairman of the board, and he worked very hard, with the guidance of Bishop Trocellier, to start this district and to build its schools.

The first school, St. Pat's, was built in 1953. This school was from kindergarten to grade seven. All students from grades eight to 12 went to the public school until St. Pat's High School was built in 1961. In 1964, the original St. Pat's High School burned down and was replaced by the present main building. This building has endured many additions and improvements over the years, consisting of the trailers and portables you now see on the sight.

The original St. Joseph School was built in 1977 and has also had improvements and additions since then. This is a dual track school with grades kindergarten to grade 9 in French immersion and grades K to eight in English.

The staff and students can be very proud of their schools in this district, but they are not stopping with these achievements, Mr. Speaker. In the next few years they are hoping to build a state-of-the -art technology high school that will again be a top-notch school in our district and the Northwest Territories.

The last 40 years for Yellowknife Catholic 'schools have been very positive and forward-looking, and there is a continued vision of success and educational excellence for the future. At the moment, Mr. Speaker, the current enrolments in the district are as follows: St. Pat's Elementary School has 192 students; St. Pat's High School has 373 students; St. Joe's has 191 in the French program and 283 in the English program, for a total of 1039 students. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--- Applause

Members' statements. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to respond to some of the comments that were made by the Government Leader with regard to the changes in health care. I want to indicate to the House here that the facts prove that there were no allegations about the quality of hospital service in the NWT; they were facts, facts and experiences of women who underwent surgery as a result of practices in our hospital.

The facts also prove that this same particular process or procedure was not the result of a decision by Mr. Whitford; this practice was an inherent practice and a result of practices before he became Minister. I think that the facts will prove that many women suffered the same problems before he became Minister.

I think there has to be a policy change and direction to change that situation. I just want you to understand that there were no allegations in this House, but the facts.

Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also rise today to express concern shared by the Members of the ordinary Members' caucus toward this entire government, and in particular the Government Leader. We all recognize, as ordinary Members, that it is the Government Leader's ultimate responsibility to ensure her Ministers understand their statutory roles and obligations to the people of the Northwest Territories.

The ordinary Members still want to express, in their strongest terms, their dissatisfaction, for example, with the way the medical procedures for abortions were being handled by the Minister of Health and by senior departmental officials.

Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the Government Leader that if this government does not address our concerns, with respect to the issue of the overall government, the ordinary Members, unfortunately, will be forced to make necessary permanent changes. Thank you.

Members' statements, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) I am going to speak in my own language. A while ago I received a paper -- regarding the upcoming plebiscite. The paper that I received, I would like to say something regarding that. I would like to think about what I am going to say before I say it.

Next month, on May 4, here in the NWT, we are going to be talking about the upcoming boundary. The question on this plebiscite will be whether you agree to the boundary or not. The people that are 18 years old and over will be able to vote. Tomorrow and the during the next eight days there are going to be people going around enumerating, an enumeration to determine who can vote. I feel that this is very important and that is why I am saying this.

Last week, while I was in Simpson, some people asked me about this. What they were concerned about was that something this important that is coming up - we are not being given much information on it. "I guess this is going to happen, but we would like to know more about it," is what the people said. I thought about it. The people in my constituency voted for me, so I would like to speak on their behalf. I feel there is something important that is being worked on in this government, and they should be talking to the government in this regard. I thought about that very hard.

Mr. Antoine, your time has expired.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue.

Unanimous consent is being requested. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, Mr. Antoine.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thought about this very hard. If there is going to be work done on it, we only have about a month to prepare for it. The Ministers that are working in regard to money -- I feel they should be giving the communities more information.

Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Allooloo.

On February 19, 1992, the Member for Baffin Centre questioned why the funding one student received had been reduced from $531.43 to $522.86. This question was answered in this House a week later, on February 26, 1992.

I then indicated to the Member that there has been no reduction in the total allowance paid to students. However, in the 1991-92 school year, the Department of Education changed the monthly allowances payment from an amount which fluctuated somewhat from month to month to an average amount.

In previous years the monthly cheque paid to students fluctuated depending upon whether a month had 30 days or 31 days. For example, a single student received $514.29 for 30-day months and $531.43 for 31-day months. Students raised concerns over the fluctuating rates as they caused budgeting problems. As a result, the department implemented a new schedule to provide students with a consistent monthly cheque rate of $522.86, based on the average of the two previous monthly rates.

The Member for Inuvik and the Member for Aivilik questioned the changes to the school year in relation to in-service days. Over the last two years the Department of Education found that many schools were open for less than the required 190 sessional days. Research in learning has shown that an increase in school days has a positive impact on the academic achievement of students. The department is making every effort to consistently maintain 190 sessional days as the standard. Under the Education Act, the Minister must authorize any change in the length of the school year.

In-service days are ordinarily held without closing a school, and therefore approval to change the school year is not required. However, should a school request a full or half day, the board must request the necessary approval from the Minister.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

I have a return to Question O425-12(2), asked by Mr. Pudlat on March 30, 1992. The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation will be constructing 11 public housing units in Cape Dorset, three in Lake Harbour and 10 in Sanikiluaq in 1992-93. Also, Lake Harbour will receive one home-ownership assistance program, HAP, package as well. These allocations were based on the results of the 1990 housing needs survey.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

This is a return to Question O363-12(2), asked by Ms. Mike on March 25th. Section 206 of the Criminal Code of Canada prohibits gambling activity in Canada. Section 207, however, grants provinces and territories the right to legalize gambling provided it is conducted and managed by charitable organizations and the funds raised are used for a charitable purpose.

Charitable organizations are distinct from other organizations, such as businesses, by the fact that they are wholly run by volunteers. Volunteers are those who choose to give freely of their time to assist others. When payment is made, whether in cash or, in this case, by free cards, these people cease to be volunteers and become paid employees.

A legal opinion was recently sought on the question of volunteers receiving compensation for conducting managing, planning or assisting with any lottery scheme." Compensation is defined in the lotteries regulations as "any direct or indirect gain or reward." It is the opinion of legal counsel that payment of any compensation breaches the provisions of section 10(1)(h) of the lotteries regulations.

The lotteries regulations apply to all licensee groups across the Territories. There is no provision for licensees to opt in or out of a particular rule. Any change to the regulation referred to above would have to be looked at in conjunction with the authority contained in the Criminal Code which permits licensed gambling to take place in Canada.

Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, there has been extensive consultation with municipalities through the Association of Municipalities and otherwise on the new funding policies. I think it is quite well known to those who have been involved in the consultations that the block funding option is part of the new policy. So I think generally I would answer "Yes" to the Member's question. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Patterson.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, we have. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, we had been approached and responded to requests from the City of Yellowknife to develop a block funding arrangement in anticipation of the new policy's coming into effect. I should inform the Member that it has not been possible to conclude a block funding agreement with Yellowknife at this time. But I can assure him that the department, and indeed the government, is certainly open to continuing those discussions with the City of Yellowknife and with other municipalities who may be interested in pursuing block funding arrangements. The new policy would certainly permit arrangements to be concluded in the coming year for implementation as early as next fiscal year. Thank you.

Last supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Patterson.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will make it a priority to continue and attempt to conclude block funding arrangements with Yellowknife and other municipalities that may choose to exercise this option now available under the new policy. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A question to the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Ms. Cournoyea. In a response to a written question that I asked on March 25, 1992, the Minister indicated that the Power Corporation had not been instructed to restructure its administration. Could the Minister confirm, then, that there has been no administrative changes within the Power Corporation at this particular time, for the Power Corporation to assume responsibility for the POL section?

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the Member that there has been no change.

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could I ask the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation if she has received this confirmation from the chairman of the board of the Power Corporation or any of its staff?

Ms. Cournoyea.

Yes, Mr. Speaker. When the question was posed, I did check with the chairman of the board and the people in the office in Hay River, and this was confirmed.

Oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the past three years the Department of Education has conducted extensive research into a distance education delivery. Several pilot projects have been successfully conducted through the Baffin Divisional Board and Yellowknife Education District No. 2. The Department of Education has also sponsored demonstration sessions for boards and Arctic College personnel. The department is co-ordinating all activities. in the field of distance education. So to some degree we have started a distance education program in some locations, and Yellowknife Education District No. 2 is involved.

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We will do everything we can to assist the educational boards throughout the NWT, so the overall cost to our government and to the school board will be minimized. As the Member suggested, we will have a co-ordinated approach, so we will be working with the divisional boards or the school districts.

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is one of the options the department will be looking at. Our interest is first to educate the students who may not otherwise have access in their own communities to programs that can be provided in bigger centres. Our interest will be to keep the cost down so that this program will not be something that the government or school boards cannot afford. So I will keep the Member as informed as possible as to what we are doing in terms of tendering that kind of project.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Education. Apparently the school bus contract in Fort Smith has been awarded for three years. However, since this contract has been in place, there was a provision that handicapped bus service had to be provided. To date this handicapped bus service has not been provided. Will the Minister of Education review to determine whether the contractor is in compliance with the contract for providing school bus services?

Mr. Allooloo.

Yes, I will review what the Member is requesting.

Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Education. It is with regard to a letter written in January about the Akaitcho Hall board which operates in an advisory capacity. There was a movement for it to become a management board, and board development officers from the Department of Education were assigned to it. But that has been eliminated now. In the Minister's response to me he indicated that the advisory board now is going to be involved with preliminary planning and with the operation and maintenance of the student hostel -- everything other than addressing whether or not the advisory board could become more autonomous and serve as a management board. Is there any direction in that area?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the past, the board has been helpful to my department in advising how to approach Akaitcho Hall. Because of the recent reviews of the agencies and the boards of this government, I will be working very closely with the agencies and boards and commissions committee to deal with that board as well.

Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is the Minister advising me that there is going to be a review of the standing committee on agencies, boards and commissions to review the Akaitcho Hall advisory board?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My understanding is that all the boards that are connected to this government will be reviewed by the standing committee on agencies, boards and commissions. The Akaitcho Hall board is one of the boards that is advisory to the government. Thank you.

Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister responsible for Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs. On May 4th, the residents of the NWT will be voting on a proposed boundary line for division of the NWT. There has been little discussion of who will pay the bill if the boundary line is accepted. The GNWT commissioned a study last year, called "Financial Impact of Division," that showed a one time transition cost of $600 million for division. We all know that the Government of the NWT is not in a financial position to pay this bill. Has the Minister had any discussion with the federal government about paying the large transitional cost for division of the NWT?

Mr. Kakfwi.

Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell the House if there has been discussion on this matter with the federal government?

Mr. Kakfwi.

Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell the House if the federal government has indicated that they will be willing to pay the one-time transition costs of division?

Mr. Kakfwi.

Mr. Antoine, your last supplementary.

Mr. Speaker, if the federal government is unable or unwilling to pay this bill, then who will pay for this transitional cost of division?

Mr. Kakfwi.

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize His Worship, Mr. Dan Marion, Mayor of Rae-Edzo.

--- Applause

Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions.

(Mr. Hamilton): Mr. Speaker. Return to Question W23-12(2) asked by Mr. Gargan to the Minister of Finance concerning the Government of the NWT 1991-92 financial situation; return to Question W24-12(2) asked by Mr. Gargan to the Minister of Finance on the Government of the NWT deficit.

Hon. John Pollard's return to Question W23-12(2), asked by Mr. Gargan on March 9, 1992: The government's latest interim unaudited financial report 'for the 1991-92 fiscal year is the "Summary of Projected Revenues and Expenditures" that is presented on page one of the information document accompanying the Supplementary Appropriation, No. 3, 1991-92 Act. This summary presents the most current forecast of the 1991-92 financial results. The forecast is for a 1991-92 deficit of approximately $49 million.

The spending forecasts by the department are also presented in the Supplementary Appropriation, No. 3, 1991-92 document on pages three and four. These spending forecasts are in the form of the revised appropriation requirements. Although from past experience it is known that some of the requested appropriation authority will not be used, it is difficult to be specific at the department level until all expenditure and year end accrual information is available. As a result, an estimate of the appropriation authority lapse for the total government, based on historic experience, is included in the Summary of Project Revenues and Expenditures, page one of the Supplementary Appropriation, No. 3, 1991-92 document. The estimated appropriation authority lapse for 1991-92 is $37 million.

Expenditures by department to the end of February 1992 are presented in the attached schedule. These amounts do not include: late expenditure information from financial subsystems; expenditures for March 1992; or year-end expenditure accruals and audit adjustments.

The Supplementary Appropriation, No. 3, 1992-92 document includes explanations for the additional appropriation authority being requested. Without the additional appropriation authority included in the supplementary appropriations, a number of departments would be overspent. However, if the appropriation authority requested is approved by the Legislative Assembly, the government does not expect any departments to be overspent at year end.

Hon. John Pollard's return to Question W24-12(2), asked by Mr. Gargan on March 9, 1992: The government's plans to bring the deficit under control were presented to the Legislative Assembly in my February 12, 1992 Minister's statement on the fiscal situation and the capital estimates. At that time I identified that the government would strive to balance the budget over the next two years and that our fiscal target was to reduce the deficit to approximately $25 million in 1992-93 and balance the budget in 1993-94. The range of deficit reduction measures that would have to be considered was also identified in my February 12, 1992 statement.

Subsequently, the Government Leader presented to the Legislative Assembly the outline of a plan to reshape northern government. This outline encompassed a suggested work plan and consultative process which would lead to the necessary decisions to live within our means yet still accomplish our major social and economic objectives.

Based on the guidelines provided in my February 12, 1992 statement and the work plan outlined in the Reshaping Northern Government document, the government is developing more specific action plans and measures to deal with the deficit. These will be discussed with the appropriate standing and special committees of this Legislative Assembly over the coming months as the 1992-93 O and M budget is developed for presentation to the standing committee on finance in June 1992.

Item 8, replies to Opening Address.

Item 9, petitions.

Item 10, reports of standing and special committees.

Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills.

Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motions. Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, April 2nd, I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Kivallivik, that Tabled Document 33-12(2), Legislative Action Paper On Access to Government, be referred to the standing committee on legislation.

Notices of Motions.

Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions. Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS the International Whaling Commission, IWC, has the responsibility to manage the world's whale stocks;

AND WHEREAS the IWC has not yet decided whether its management role includes the competence to manage small cetaceans;

AND WHEREAS it appears inevitable that the IWC will assume the responsibility to manage small cetaceans within the next two years;

AND WHEREAS the present IWC is dominated by member nations that pursue a goal of irrational protectionism rather than management of whale stocks;

AND WHEREAS those same member nations of IWC appear to be influenced by the same animal rights groups that have caused the demise of the fur and sealing industries and have thereby created a negative impact on northern native traditional pursuits and lifestyle;

AND WHEREAS those same member nations will make unreasonable requests of subsistence harvesters in the NWT;

AND WHEREAS subsistence harvesters within the NWT fulfill their needs following the principles of conservation and sustainability according to management plans;

AND WHEREAS there is no need for external agencies such as the IWC to interfere with Canada's sovereign right to manage its whale resources on behalf of its aboriginal population;

AND WHEREAS Canada's aboriginal peoples have inalienable rights to harvest whale species for subsistence;

AND WHEREAS these rights may be compromised by Canada being subject to the IWC by virtue of membership;

AND WHEREAS such a situation would lead to prolonged conflict between Canada and its aboriginal peoples with respect to harvesting rights and subsistence needs; AND WHEREAS Canada must pay as much attention to its internal affairs as it does to its image in the eyes of the rest of the world;

AND WHEREAS Canada can be proud of its record of the wise use of renewable resources in the NWT;

AND WHEREAS the Inuvialuit, by virtue of their experiences with the IWC, have resolved that the IWC does not, and will not, serve a useful purpose with respect to the national utilization and management of whale resources;

AND WHEREAS all subsistence users within the NWT share the same view of the national utilization of wildlife;

NOW THEREFORE, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, that this Legislative Assembly is not in favour of Canada rejoining the International Whaling Commission;

AND FURTHER, that the Government of the Northwest Territories communicate this resolution to the Government of Canada.

The motion is in order, Ms. Mike. To the motion. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me considerable pleasure to bring this motion before the House today. I believe that it is an important resolution and one that deserves the full support of this Legislative Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, Canada is not presently a member of the International Whaling Commission. The motion before this House would state clearly and unmistakably that the government and the people of the NWT do not favour any changes in this status. We should not join the International Whaling Commission, Mr. Speaker, There should be no mistake about this. As elected Members of the Legislative Assembly of the NWT, we should convey this message to the Government of Canada.

History And Importance Of Subsistence Whaling

Honourable Members will be aware of the long history we have, as Inuit people, of subsisting on resources from the land and sea. Our relationship with the animals of the sea is based on more than just subsistence; in many ways, it is part of who we are. The aboriginal peoples of Canada have been described as "the world's best conservationists." This is true. For centuries we have cared for the resources of the land and sea, and they have sustained us. Throughout the NWT we have had an historic relationship with all species of whales. We have relied on them for food, fuel and bone. But we have also been mindful of the need to balance our needs with a sense of respect for the species and a commitment to their survival.

I believe that our traditional relationship with the resources of our natural world is part of the character of aboriginal peoples. That character is continually protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The International Whaling Commission

The International Whaling Commission is not an idea that was ever supported by aboriginal organizations. It was founded on December 2, 1946, with the signing of the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling. As an organization, it is supposed to provide for the proper conservation of whale stocks and orderly development of the whaling industry. It has established a scientific committee and a technical committee. Generally, the scientific committee provides information which forms the basis on which the technical committee develops regulations through which the IWC then attempts to control whaling.

The International Whaling Commission is presently made up of fewer than 40 member nations and is headquartered in Cambridge, England. Although Canada was originally a signatory to the convention, we withdrew as a voting member of the commission in 1981 because of IWC policy directions. Increasingly, the International Whaling Commission has become subjected to the influence of the same animal rights groups that caused the demise of the fur and sealing industries. These organizations have demonstrated that they have little interest in, or respect for, the traditional lifestyle pursuits of the aboriginal people of Canada.

This is reflected in the activities of the International Whaling Commission. Although the commission recognizes "aboriginal subsistence hunting" as a management category, it has been closed to accepting the right of the circumpolar groups to self-govern their own harvesting practices. In fact, as aboriginal people, we have been dismayed to see the humiliating and degrading way in which the reasonable requests of the last surviving Becquian of the West Indies, the Greenlandic Inuit and Japanese small-type coastal whalers have been dealt with by the other nations in the commission.

Over and over, decisions of the commission have been influenced by radical environmentalists and animal rights activists whose positions have been based on emotion rather than on any understanding of sustainable development or of the aboriginal way of life.

The decisions of the commission are supposed to be based on scientific evidence, Mr. Speaker, but the credibility of the commission's scientific committee is very questionable. In fact, at a January, 1990 conference at Aarhus University in Denmark, the commission and its so-called scientific approach to whaling management were roundedly criticized by members of the Society for North Atlantic Studies. One well-known anthropologist, Dr. Milton Freeman, dismissed the recent history of the IWC as one that has been based on politics and sentimentality. He described it as "the end of an era of attempted scientific rationality," and he argued that the resulting management decisions have caused serious and pervasive damage to a number of human communities. As Canadians we must ask ourselves why we want to be involved with an international organization that is responsible for that.

A politician from Greenland, Finn Lynge, attended the same conference as Dr. Freeman and pointed out that at the IWC, science is simply a costume that one puts over the attitudes one already has. He argued that the emotions stirred up by the animal rightr lobbyists are then cloaked in statistics or other scientific garb in order to sell them to the member countries of the IWC.

When one regards the low esteem in which the scientific community regards the International Whaling Commission, it becomes clear that the organization is now dominated by member nations whose long-term goal appears to be the pursuit of a policy of arbitrary protectionism to ultimately prevent the killing of any whale species for any purpose.

This should not be the goal of Canadians. As Northerners we have learned to be a little suspicious of claims that scientists have made about the animals and resources of our land. We should be especially suspicious of "bad scientists," and I believe this is what the Government of Canada would be buying if it paid for a membership in IWC.

The situation at the IWC, charged with international politics, has recently led Iceland to withdraw from the commission, and Norway has threatened to do the same. I think that Canada's Ministers of External Affairs and Fisheries and Oceans should be mindful of the comments made by Iceland's Minister of Fisheries when he stated, "The IWC is, and will remain, an outdated and ineffective organization."

Management Of Bowhead Population

I would like to talk for a moment about the most recent instance in which IWC has demonstrated its disregard for Canada's aboriginal Northerners. That has to do with the subsistence harvest of bowhead whales. Honourable Members will know that there has been a strong interest across different areas of the NWT in resuming the harvest of small numbers of bowhead whales. These populations have been well studied, both in the Eastern Arctic and in the Western Arctic. Today I will table two scientific articles that report on the status of the bowhead population in the Beaufort Sea and in Isabella Bay off Baffin Island.

Not withstanding this scientific data, member nations in the IWC has opposed the rightful interest of aboriginal people in resuming the bowhead whale harvest. Since the late 1970s, the commission has been driven by a policy that has placed a priority on reducing numbers of bowheads taken. That policy, Mr. Speaker, has been based on the so-called Brenham-Breiwick Report. Let me read you a description of this report by David Boeri's book entitled "People of the Ice Whale":

"Their report was based not on data actually collected out on the ice, but on results derived from a computer model they had designed to resemble the population of bowheads. After entering hypothetical data into the model and running the program, scientists had concluded that if their assumptions were correct, the population was declining and would probably continue to decline even if the hunt was stopped."

Based on this sort of shoddy analysis, the IWC embarked on a program which has been aimed at opposing even the subsistence harvest of bowhead that our elders remember clearly.

Mr. Speaker, during the 11th Assembly, Mr. Arlooktoo and Mr. Kilabuk both called on the GNWT to support bowhead hunting. Mr. Allooloo did his best, I believe, in bringing this issue to the federal government. The House passed a motion on March 13, 1989, supporting Inuit hunting of bowhead whales, but the truth was that the Government of Canada was placed under significant pressure from environmental lobbyists and seemed to resist our interest in exercising this inalienable right to harvest the bowhead. When approval was finally given for Inuvialuit to take a single whale, the International Whaling Commission had the audacity to raise objections to it. Mr. Speaker, we do not need, and we do not want, to belong to such an organization.

Management Of Small Cetaceans

Currently the International Whaling Commission does not have responsibility for the management of small whale species like beluga and narwhal, but some members of the commission have shown no hesitation to make poorly advised comments about the harvest of these species. And current pressures from the international animal rights community have raised the notion that the commission should assume this responsibility.

At its annual meeting in 1989, the commission adopted a resolution that the scientific community should begin to draw together available information on these species. It was agreed that a report on this work should be forwarded to the 1992 United Nations Conference on Environment and Development.

It would seem as though it is almost inevitable that the commission will attempt to assume management responsibility for small whale species in the near future. It is also likely that this action will be catalyzed by resolutions that are expected to come from the United Nations Conference on Environment and Development later this year.

Mr. Speaker, the IWC has not been sensitive to the cultural aspects of the traditional harvest of large whale species, and we can only assume that its approach to the management of small cetaceans will be equally insensitive. I believe that it is important that the Government of Canada not participate in any process that will be interpreted as supporting IWC involvement in the management of small cetaceans. Clearly, the commission lacks the competence, either in terms of scientific background or in terms of aboriginal knowledge, and it is listening to the wrong people in terms of the input it is receiving.

Economic Reasons

Mr. Speaker, there is another reason why Canada should not become a member of the International Whaling Commission. With the prevailing fiscal climate, Canada simply cannot afford to rejoin the IWC. Membership fees are substantial, and there would almost certainly be substantial unseen costs.

Further, one only has to take a quick look at the recent financial history of IWC to realize that this is not a well run organization. At almost every meeting a substantial amount of time is devoted to discussions of the commission's serious financial problems. In 1989, it was announced that the organization had a cash shortfall of over $245,000, and almost no progress has been made in correcting that since then. Certain member nations are allowed to overlook membership payments and carry serious debts from one year to the next. Yet the commission continues to require increasing amounts of money from those member nations that do pay. Between 1988-89 and 1989-90 the budget of the organization grew by more than 35 per cent, while the budget for research funding was reduced by about 15 per cent. In fact, the chairman of the commission's scientific committee has even suggested that members should consider making direct voluntary contributions to fund research activities of the committee and seek funding sources within their own countries. If that is the case, what, then, is the benefit of joining the commission?

The commission is, in my estimation, a top heavy and ineffective body. I do not agree that Canadian tax dollars should be used to fund the interests of governments in other countries who need to satisfy animal rights lobby groups for their own political purposes.

Conclusion

A decision for Canada to renew its membership in the international Whaling Commission would not make sense from a moral perspective. It would place the aboriginal people of this country in constant conflict with the federal government over management issues, and it would make bad financial sense. I am not alone in this view, Mr. Speaker. The Inuvialuit have been able to experience the workings of the IWC first-hand as members of the Canadian observer delegation at the last three annual meetings. They will also be going to the upcoming meeting this year in Glasgow, Scotland. The Inuvialuit are, therefore, probably in the best position to comment on the issue of whether Canada should renew its membership in the IWC. Their stance is very clear on the subject. They have stated, "Our carefully considered position is that it is not in the best interests of the Inuvialuit of Canada to rejoin the IWC."

Based on the history of the commission I would have to go even further, myself. It is not in the best interests of the aboriginal people of Canada to rejoin the IWC. I understand that consideration is now being given in Ottawa to the idea of reconsidering Canada's position on membership in the IWC. This review seems to be happening with little consultation between the ministries involved and the First Nations of Canada. I think that it is important for the Legislative Assembly of the NWT to send a clear message to the Government of Canada that our people do not want to see this country resume its membership in the International Whaling Commission. I would urge all Members to support this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the motion. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe Ms. Mike has articulated the arguments quite explicitly as to why it is important for Members of this House to support such a motion. I have had my opportunities to speak to a young man by the name of Billy Archie, who was a participant in the Inuvialuit delegation to the annual meetings, and he has explained to me on many occasions how difficult it is to convince the International Whaling Commission even to address the matter of a bowhead whale for the Inuvialuit community and how difficult it was to even explain to them the aboriginal harvesting rights that existed and how difficult it was for the delegation to try to assure the International Whaling Commission that they would continue to maintain their traditional concern with regard to harvesting of whales in Canada.

I only can say again that Ms. Mike has articulated extremely well why this motion should be supported by Members of this House, and I would ask all Members to rise and support this motion.

To the motion. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had a brief discussion on this motion with my officials two days ago. My department and I support the harvesting of whales as long as the population can be sustained. Secondly, we wish to see Inuit and Inuvialuit, especially, maintain their link with the land. We also support the management of whales by those who use the resources. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I will be supporting the motion, and I urge my colleagues to do the same.

Question.

Question is being called. Would the mover like to conclude debate?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the comments of other Members, and I hope they will support this motion. I want to close this debate by saying again that Canada should not be a member of the International Whaling Commission. There are activities that we can undertake instead. I am aware, for instance, that the Inuvialuit have already jointly developed a beluga management plan for the Mackenzie Delta. They are now actively working toward an international management plan for this stock shared with Alaska.

There is considerable support for the development of a circumpolar whaling commission under the control of the Inuit Circumpolar Conference. I believe that this is one subject that will be discussed further at the forthcoming ICC conference in Inuvik in July.

I am sure the honourable Members will be aware that progress is being made, as well, in the establishment of an international arctic council. The dialogue that will take place in this council will likely facilitate international resource management and aboriginal rights-issues as well. I believe that management and conservation issues can be addressed through these initiatives. Canada does not need to become a member of the International Whaling Commission. It should not renew Its membership. I would urge all honourable Members to vote in support of this motion.

Motion 10-12(2), Carried

That concludes debate. All those in favour? Opposed, if any? The motion is carried unanimously.

--- Carried

Item 16, first reading of bills.

Item 17, second reading of bills. Ms. Mike.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to seek unanimous consent to return to tabling of documents.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to return to Item 12, tabling of documents. Are there any nays? There are no nays, proceed, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 38-12(2), an article entitled "Isabella Bay, Baffin Island: An Important Historical and Present-Day Concentration Area for the Endangered Bowhead Whale of the Eastern Canadian Arctic," authored by K.J. Finley and published in 1990 in the Journal of he Arctic Institute of Canada; and Tabled Document 39-12(2), an article entitled "Estimates of Bowhead Whale Numbers in the Beaufort Sea during Late Summer," authored by Sue Moore and Janet Clarke and published in 1991 in the same periodical. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 9-12(2), Strength at Two Levels; Tabled Document 10-12(2), Reshaping Northern Government; Tabled Document 12-12(2), Plebiscite Direction; Bill 14, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1992-93; Motion 6-12(2), Discussion on Sobriety Clause and Contribution Agreements; Bill 5, An Act to Repeal the Neptune Resources Corporation Loan Guarantee Act; Committee Report 3-12(2), SCOF Review of the 1992-93 Capital Estimates; Bill 12, Tobacco Tax Act; Bill 22, Write-off of Assets and Debts Act, 1992; Bill 23, Loan Authorization Act, 1992-93; Bill 7, Interim Appropriations for the GNWT for the Fiscal Year Ending March 31, 1993, with Mr. Nerysoo in the chair.

The committee will come to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Chairman, if we could handle Bills 7, 14, 23, 22, 12 and 5, in that order, it would suit us just fine.