Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the concerns that has been expressed within some of the small communities is the definition of the allocation, if you want, between HAP and public housing. It is our understanding that when you quantify the expenditures over a 20-year period, the NWT Housing Corporation can, in fact, put eight or nine HAP units somewhere, compared to one public housing unit. While we recognize there is an urgent need for housing and that the ideal solution, of course, would be that everybody would have a HAP house, because it seems to be the most economical way to go, there still has to be serious consideration given to those that just simply cannot afford it; and public housing, or what I call social housing, is absolutely essential for a number of our citizens that are simply not in the financial bracket or category to afford HAP units.

Motion To Seek Advice Of Community Groups To Determine Global Application Between HAP And Public Housing Units, Carried

So with that, I would like to move that the committee recommends that the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation consult with and seek the advice and recommendations of community groups, to determine the global application between HAP and public housing units, to ensure that the needs of all the communities have been addressed. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Your motion is being passed around to the Members. To the motion. Mr. Todd.

Well, as I said, the motion is self-explanatory. There is clearly a requirement to ensure that those in need with respect to public housing are taken care of, and that we must be cautious. They may be a little enthusiastic to get more HAPs on the deck, which is understandable, because the HAP program is an attractive program despite some of its internal weaknesses. Clearly we have to ensure that the

people who cannot afford that, and the balance in terms of how we approach the communities as to what the basic needs are, which may come out of the needs study anyway, be at rest. Thank you.

I forgot to rule that the motion was in order. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is a good motion, and a lot of this will be addressed in the needs survey. As well as community allocation, global allocation between HAP and public units is to ensure that the needs of the community have been addressed. One thing we will have to look at as well is that when the new programs are developed and put in place for next fall, it will free up social houses, public houses for those in need. There are some people in there with higher incomes who can afford to run their own homes; those are the ones who should be in their own homes, and those in need should be in the public units. That will all be taken into consideration. The needs survey should be fairly clear in saying that the community needs "whatever" amount of different units. We should not have any problems with CMHC, either. Thank you.

To the motion.

Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a motion, and it has to do with the problems with the NWT Housing Corporation with regard to having a plan of action, and with the need for solid management to be in place.

Motion For Action Plan To Correct Problems In NWT Housing Corporation, Carried

I move that the committee recommends that the cabinet ensures that an action plan and a solid management is implemented to ensure that the current problems in the NWT Housing Corporation are corrected. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Your motion is being passed around. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The motion is self-explanatory. We have heard many times that there are problems within the NWT Housing Corporation, and this motion would give direction to ensure that an action plan be implemented and there would be a solid management put in place. That is what the intention of the motion is. Mahsi.

Thank you. To the motion.

Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Ms. Mike

---Carried

Mr. Chairman, I have a motion.

Motion That NWT Housing Corporation Provide Detail Of Future Years' Capital Expenditures, Carried

I move that the committee recommends that the NWT Housing Corporation provide a detail of the future years' capital expenditures commencing with the 1993-94 capital estimates and standing committee on finance books; and further, that the corporation provides these capital requirements by community in the standing committee on finance books.

Thank you, Ms. Mike. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Ms. Mike.

Mr. Chairman, the motion is self-explanatory. I think it is perfectly clear what the motion demands.

Thank you. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a motion that, hopefully, will take care of the problem that we have with people in some of the communities who need different types of houses other than HAPs.

Motion To Build More Apartment-Type Housing, Carried

I move that the committee recommends that the NWT Housing Corporation build more apartment-type buildings to take advantage of economies of scale to provide more housing units immediately.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Minister. Excuse me, Mr. Minister; I think Mr. Antoine should speak first. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This motion is to try to deal with and accommodate people. For example, in Fort Simpson over the last couple of years, there was a group of people who called themselves "the homeless people." They have had meetings, and according to the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation's criteria, anybody who is 19 years of age and older is entitled to their own unit to live. These people I am referring to had meetings in Simpson, and the public health nurse in Simpson did a survey and said there were about 92 of them in Simpson alone that needed a unit to stay in. These are people that are young adults and adults who are still living at home in overcrowded conditions. In some cases some of these people do not have their own units so they are going house to house, living in other people's places. They fall through the cracks because of the present criteria of the Housing Corporation.

They approached the previous Minister of Housing in Simpson on a number of occasions, and the former president also was approached in Simpson, and the request was that the HAP program is for a big house, three or four bedrooms in some cases, going for $100,000 a unit. We also have this special project which is only one or two units a year, but we need to take care of people who do not fit in either criteria, so the idea here is to try to give direction to the Housing Corporation to see if they could develop another type of program that would meet the needs of other Northerners that do not qualify for HAP, or for a special unit or public housing. Mahsi.

Thank you. Mr. Minister. Mr. Todd.