Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, when paving was started on this highway seven years ago, the department never intended to pave the highway right through at that point, but to pave it at some point in the future. What we will have to do, if we are going to pave the highway, is to do some construction in areas where we would have to widen where it is too narrow to pave, and also we will prioritize our projects based on benefit and cost analysis.

Mr. Chairman, we do have a plan but unfortunately the plan, or the expenditure that is given to our department, does not allow us to address all of the requests that are coming into our department, such as reconstruction of the highways, maintenance of the highways or even paving the highways. We could only address these in some areas.

Mr. Chairman, we are willing to sit down and see if the costs and benefits in paving the highway override other priorities, and then we will probably change some of the projects. If the Legislative Assembly wants us to do that. At the moment, our information tells us that the work that is needed the most is on Highway 3, where the need is the greatest, and the usage of the highway is the greatest. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess that is one of the things that concerns me with the way the government plans. The Minister just stated that in order to address this highway, or any other highway in the Territories, they try to address where the need is the greatest. Does that mean that the communities where they do not feel the need is the greatest get overlooked? I look at the government and I think, look at the thousands, probably millions, of dollars they spent to pave toward Pine Point because the need was the greatest.

Now you have a highway paved into nowhere, where there was a community and there is nothing now. You then started to take the Pine Point junction highway and pave it toward Fort Smith. Thirty miles of that highway was pavement because there were people in Pine Point who had cottages out at Sandy Lake, and they probably do not use them now. You stopped right there without any future plans for paving. That is the irritating part, that you go where the need is the greatest. Where is Pine Point today?

All I am asking you is to continue with the plan that your Department officials started seven years ago. I seem to get the same redundant response of cost and benefit. Is it fair that because there is no demand and you do not have a cost analysis with respect to how much it is going to cost for that highway that they have to maintain the gravel highway that they have? I am really getting irritated by receiving the response of "on cost benefit" when there was never any consideration to even do a cost benefit analysis. I am really irritated by the fact that you paved -- and spent thousands of tax dollars -- to a community where you do not even have a community anymore, to an area where you had to service these elite cottages, and never continued completing your plan. You are not even going to consider completing your plan. I would like to know if you would reconsider looking at that highway and finish what you started to do?

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister, once again, will he consider my request in completing the highway that they started to pave back in the middle 1980s, and complete the work that his department took on? Thank you.

Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, yes we have plans in place that will complete the paving of Highway No. 5. We have it in our plans to complete that paving, but that is some time in the future, unfortunately. My department has done cost and benefit studies on all of the highways in the NWT. We have priorities that are higher priorities than Highway No. 5. Our plan is to complete the paving of that highway, but I cannot give a definite answer and commitment of when that will be. But our tentative plan tells me that we will start paving it in 1997. Thank you.

Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is that the way the department plans? They start off a project in 1985 and then they attempt to complete the project 12 years later? That is exactly what is happening with this particular highway. Is that the way the Minister plans?

Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, at the time when the project started there was no plan, I am told, to pave Highway No. 5 right through. I would like to ask my deputy minister to answer part of the question, if you will allow me.

Mr. Gamble. Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At the time that that paving on the Fort Smith highway was done, it was not in the plan to pave all the way to Fort Smith. We did an area near Fort Smith; we did the area between Pine Point and Hay River and between the junction and that access road. Those are the areas with the highest traffic at the time. We did not stop the plan to pave the Fort Smith highway. We did not have a plan to pave the whole thing at that time. Thank you.

Member for Thebacha.

I guess this is the point I want to make, Mr. Chairman, and it is unfortunate I have to take up so much time, but I am going to dwell on this point until I seem to get it across to the Minister.

Mr. Chairman, they started this paving because they said the demand was basically there, and it was an access road that they paved, from Pine Point to this access road. At no point in time was that an access road that they paved. They paved the highway and they paved from Sandy Lake to Pine Point junction. And because of the demand there -- it was because people used these cottages on the weekend to go to Sandy Lake -- so they decided to take this Pine Point junction highway and pave it to Sandy Lake so people could make use of their cottages, just like they do here in Yellowknife where they go out to their cottages on Ingraham Trail.

All I am stating is that there was no consideration at that time to complete their plan from Sandy lake to Fort Smith. I think that is totally poor planning on the department's part and I do not agree with it. Why did they even pave that portion of the highway for people to go to their cottages on the weekend, without any consideration toward completing the paving of the total highway?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am

told that when we paved the highway from Pine Point to Sandy Lake, there was a considerable amount of traffic. At the time when the paving was done, the department's paving program was driven by where the need was greatest, where the traffic was the greatest, and at the time when the paving was done seven years ago, there was considerable traffic going into that particular area. We also did some paving from Fort Smith to Bell Rock. As the Member stated, there is paving there in the Fort Smith area. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Mr. Chairman, my question still has not been answered. I guess if I take the rest of the day to dwell on this, I am going to have to. You know, Highway No. 5 was paved from the Pine Point junction toward the Sandy Lake turnoff where people could access their cottages back in 1985, and the Minister is trying to indicate to me that there was a considerable amount of traffic on that highway. Well, I know that there has still been a considerable amount of traffic on that highway, and I know that there has been a considerable number of accidents on that highway also, and that the accidents have been on the gravel portion of that highway. It upsets me that the Minister has not given any consideration toward finishing off the paving that his department started back in 1985. I know he stated that he tries to address the need where it is greatest, but the point I am trying to make is that the community of Fort Smith has been there for well over 100 years, and we are still there, and it is totally unfair that I, as a Member, have to sit here and tolerate the answer, "where the need is greatest" knowing we have spent millions of dollars as a government. This government has spent millions of dollars to pave a highway toward Pine Point, which is no longer there. I do not know how many residents live in Pine Point, and our highway is not given any consideration for future paving. Now where is the department's planning? How do they plan? I want to know if they are going to consider paving and completing the job they started back in 1985, prior to 1997, because I will not tolerate your department completing the work 12 years later than when you began.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you. Currently, our plan tells us that we do not plan to completely pave Highway No. 5 before 1997. We have no plans to pave it before 1997.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Can the Minister advise this House as to how his department developed their plan?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department establishes the priorities based on the Northwest Territories transportation strategy, which was tabled in the Legislative Assembly in 1990. It identifies four strategic objectives which link transportation priorities to our economic, social and political needs and aspirations. This strategy includes, in addition to GNWT priorities, priorities for federal and provincial and private sector expenditure in the North. It also encompasses O and M well as capital expenditures.

In reviewing the 1992-93 departmental capital it must be noted that our plan only includes capital, and it only includes those program areas for which the NWT has a responsibility. Most of the transportation capital for 1992-93 falls within objective one, improving and maintaining what we have. Given these qualifications the capital plan is entirely consistent with the transportation strategy, and based upon the usage of the highway and also the cost-benefit analysis that the department has done, our priorities are set. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.