We were going to suggest Bills 2,3, 6, 18, 19 and 20, in that order, unless there appears to be a problem in dealing with Bill 3 today.

Mr. Pollard.

I was informed this morning that the standing committee on legislation would prefer that we did not deal with Bill 3 this morning.

Is it the wish of the committee that we are dealing with Bills 2, 6, 18, 19 and 20? Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. We will deal with Bill 2 after a short recess.

--- SHORT RECESS

Bill 2, Engineering, Geological And Geophysical Professions Act

I would like to call the committee to order. We are dealing with Bill 2, An Act to Amend the Engineering, Geological and Geophysical Professions Act. Mr. Patterson.

Minister's Opening

Remarks

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some opening comments. The purpose of this bill is to amend the Engineering, Geological and Geophysical Professions Act to remove the requirement that the by-laws of the professional association be approved by the Minister. The by-laws would now come into effect with the approval of the membership of the professional association. This amendment was requested by the president of the professional association in order to allow the association to amend Its by-laws without the delay inherent in having the Department of Justice review the by-law.

The act covers the recognition of the association, the set-up of the governing council, practice, registration, permits, fees, discipline, liability, and offenses and punishment. By-laws cover the internal workings of the association, qualification for membership, categories of membership and a code of ethics for the professions.

The government is moving toward removing the requirement to have a government official, whether it be the Commissioner or the Minister, review the by-laws of professional associations. This amendment allows the association the freedom to manage its affairs without government involvement.

The crucial elements of the governing of the practice and professional association, such as discipline and offenses, remain in the act. Thank you.

Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Comments From The Standing Committee On Legislation

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The standing committee on legislation reviewed Bill 2 at its public meeting on May 27, 1992. The standing committee received a submission from the NWT Association of Professional Engineers, Geologists and Geophysicists, as part of Its public review. The association representative indicated full agreement with the amendments included in Bill 2. The

standing committee was grateful to he Minister of Justice, the Hon. Dennis Patterson, for appearing to present the bill and to respond to Members comments and questions.

The committee felt that the amendment included in Bill 2 was straightforward, and Members were generally supportive of the concept that the Minister should not have to approve each of the by-laws of this self-regulating professional association.

In reviewing this bill, Members of the standing committee questioned the Minister about the process for disciplinary review and asked for assurances about public and government access to the association's by-laws. But generally, there was committee support for this amendment to the Engineering, Geological and Geophysical Professions Act, and, with that in mind, the standing committee on legislation carried a motion on May 27th that Bill 2 should be reported to the House as ready for committee of the whole.

General comments. Is it the wish of the committee to go clause by clause?

Agreed.

Clause 1. Agreed?

Agreed.

--Agreed

The bill as a whole. Agreed?

Agreed.

--Agreed

Does the committee agree that Bill 2 is ready for third reading?

Agreed.

--Agreed

Thank you. We will deal with Bill 6, Purchasing Management Association Act. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 6, Purchasing Management Association Act

Minister's Opening Remarks

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Purchasers are men and women who consult with clients, prepare specifications, send out tenders, negotiate with suppliers and get the right product at the right place, at the right time and at the right price. Sixty-eight hundred purchasers in Canada belong to the Purchasing Management Association of Canada. They progress through courses and job experience to achieve five levels of purchasing expertise. The top level is called certified purchasing professional. This title means that the person has passed a series of exams and has satisfied a national board that he or she is fully qualified to carry out all purchasing functions with the highest degree of expertise.

The purpose of this bill, Mr. Chairman, is to recognize in the Northwest Territories the designation of certified professional purchaser, called CPP, and to create an offence for the misuse of the designation. It will protect the public against misuse of the designation and give the public a way to judge the competency, education and ethical practice of a purchaser. Large amounts of corporate funds are spent by purchasers.

Purchasers are also responsible for the expenditure of large

amounts of public funds. There must be some degree of assurance that these funds are being spent wisely and in the corporate or public interest.

If I may, Mr. Chairman, I would like to give an example. Say a person comes to town looking for a job; he is nicely dressed and speaks well; people believe in him; he says he is a certified purchasing professional. Maybe he even has some good looking diplomas. So the co-op hires him to do their purchasing for sealift. Because they believe he is a certified purchasing professional, nobody watches his work closely. He places an order for 10 snowmobiles that are to be shipped by sealift. He orders them by model number only, and accepts the delivery schedule of the supplier. Only five machines meet the sealift deadline, and he does not have them inspected until they arrive in the community. The machines do not meet the specifications with the options initially ordered. These machines are rejected by the client and returned to the co-op at their cost. The co-op now has a very upset client. It has to pay for five machines sitting on a dock in Montreal. It has extra machines in inventory, and the client has no machines at all. The phoney purchaser has cost the co-op a lot of money through his incompetence, but they have no legal stand for charging the person with an offence.

This bill is needed in order to protect the interests of all employers by recognizing the CPP designation and standards of performance it establishes. Without this legislation in the NWT, anyone can hold themselves out as a CPP, and the only recourse would be for the association to write them a letter asking them to stop. Unless this legislation is put in place, any unscrupulous person could say they are a CPP and cause harm to their employer or the public through reckless agreements with suppliers or unnecessary expense.

Six provinces have protected the CPP designation through legislation. They have agreed that the Purchasing Management Association's code of ethics and enforcement procedure are of the highest calibre. They have also recognized that the association is recognized by its 53 districts and branches and is the single largest group of both private and public sector purchasers. I believe it is important that this government adopt this legislation, particularly since our widespread communities and the state of communications sometimes make it difficult to check thoroughly on someone's qualifications. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Comments From The Standing Committee On Legislation

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The standing committee on legislation completed its review of Bill 6, Purchasing Management Association Act, at a public meeting on Tuesday, May 26, 1992. The standing committee was grateful to the Minister of Government Services, the Hon. John Ningark, for presenting the bill at this meeting and for responding fully to the questions and comments raised by Members. Although no public witnesses appeared before the standing committee to comment on this bill, the Minister was accompanied by the past president of the NWT district of the Purchasing Management Association, who is active as well on the national executive. Also present was the procurement manager in the Department of Government Services, who has also been active in the association. These gentlemen were able to brief the standing committee on some of the more specific considerations related to the role of the Purchasing Management Association in the Northwest Territories and the purpose of the proposed legislation.

Bill 6 would create a new statute that would recognize the Purchasing Management Association of Canada and give that organization the authority to set requirements and grant the designation of certified professional purchaser. The idea behind establishing the CPP designation is that it will identify persons who have met national standards by completing the extensive training and certification process. It provides employers, most of whom probably will be government departments and agencies, with an assurance that procurement and purchasing professionals holding the designation have been schooled in the most effective and efficient procedures as well as ethical standards in their field. This bill would create an offence for persons who might attempt to use this designation without permission and would establish a fine of up to $1000 upon summary conviction.

The standing committee on legislation understands that this bill is strongly supported by the NWT district of the Purchasing Management Association of Canada. This professional organization presently has some 65 to 70 members. About 60 per cent of these people work for government. The organization has been quite active in the training and professional support of native workers wishing to enter the purchasing profession. The standing committee on legislation found that this bill was technically sound and recognized the advantages inherent in establishing an offence for the illegitimate use of the CPP designation.

At the same time, our public review of this bill led to some discussion on a number of larger issues which may also apply to similar legislation dealing with professional bodies. The standing committee noted, for instance, that this was a bill that would have a direct effect on a relatively small number of people. Members of the committee were generally supportive of the Purchasing Management Association's efforts to develop and foster a professional core and agreed with the concept that establishing the designation in law would convey the government's recognition of the CPP as a symbol of purchasing excellence.

At the same time, though, the standing committee was also cognizant of the fact that the number of territorial statutes has increased steadily to the point where there is a fairly massive body of law on the books. While this is not inherently bad, this government, over its term in office, should be mindful of the need to carefully consider whether each legislative initiative is of sufficient significance to the people of the NWT to justify the decision to enact the law. Clearly, it will be difficult for every public professional affiliation, no matter how hard-working they are, no matter how valuable their contribution has been to the Northwest Territories, to have their own establishment act.

The standing committee on legislation concluded that this consideration was not sufficiently significant to proceed with amendments or further delay the passage of Bill 6. However, if the intent of legislating in this area is to recognize the existence of a professional association which self-regulates and acts on behalf of purchasers, the Minister and the PMAC

may wish, in their own good judgment, to come back to this point at some time in the future and add some other words which recognize that in the Territories the NWT district organization acts on behalf of the Purchasing Management Association of Canada.

These comments are brought forward to the House, Mr. Chairman, not to oppose the proposed Purchasing Management Association Act but rather to provide some guidance that the government should take into account when proceeding to legislate the affairs of professional organizations in the Northwest Territories.

With those comments, Mr. Chairman, I wish to report that on May 26, 1992, the standing committee on legislation passed a motion to report Bill 6 to the Legislative Assembly as ready for consideration by the committee of the whole. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

General comments. Is it the

wish of the committee that we go clause by clause?

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Thank you. Clause 1, definitions. Agreed?