Good morning. Orders of the day for Friday, June 19, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to state to the Members my appreciation for the book that was produced by the elders of Coral Harbour, entitled, in Inuktitut, "Sivulliptinnit Qaujimajariaqiqtavut,' and in English, "Our Link to the Past.' The elders that participated in this project were Annie Netser, Emma Natatok, lrqsuktuk Eetuk, Kanayuk Bruce, Mikitok Bruce, Nadleopar Kudluk, Omayualuk Eetuk, Tooma Netser, Qupiruaq Takunagak, Sekoliak Paliak, and Tomassie Nakoolak. One other elder, Maggie Nakoolak, did participate, but, sadly, she passed away during production. She had wanted to write more, but her failing health prevented this. The book was dedicated to her memory and her wish that this project be carried on.

This book symbolizes the passing of knowledge from one generation to the next. Each of the elders expressed that they must seek different means and medias to pass along the tradition, culture and language to their children and their grandchildren and that much more begs to be documented before all is lost to time immemorial.

I am proud that before becoming an MLA I participated as a co-ordinator; Suzie Emiktowt as editor; Ikkummuk Evaloakjuk as editor and typist; Atteetah Evaloakjuk, editing and typing; Clara Ell, artwork; and Fraser Hope with computer graphics and layout.

The community education council of Coral Harbour provided the support since the conception of this project. I thank each and every one who helped make this happen. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is still very unclear which way this government is going to go with its economic development programs. But since it is Friday, I will start off on a good note by commending the Department of Economic Development and Tourism for a full-page exposure yesterday in the gardening section of the Edmonton Journal, section C7. It is about the driveable wilderness, an adventure of a lifetime. There is a map of this waterfalls route, which includes visions of Alexandra Falls, the 34 metre drop, Louise Falls, Lady Evelyn Falls near Kakisa, and Whittaker Falls. This water will, in the words of some wise elders, 'fall forever." Being an

optimist, I believe that there will be people around for just as long to witness these wonderful spectacles. So I think they are on the right track, that we do have some beautiful things to show people, and we should not be too shy to take a full page like this, because I think we only pay for half of it. Some good copywriter from that department has written the article, and we have only paid for half the page, so I think it is a good thing to do. Thank you.

Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak about an Inuit hunter and trapper from Pond Inlet named Joseph Idlout. Mr. Idlout will be familiar to all Canadians. Along with Elijah Erkloo, a former Member of this House, he was one of the young Inuit hunters who was featured on the back of an old Canadian two dollar bill. Mr. Speaker, on January 6 of this year, I watched a television documentary, "Between Two Worlds", that detailed the life of Mr. Idlout from his early years in Pond Inlet to the time of his death in Resolute in 1968. Mr. Speaker, I was deeply touched by the struggle and the ultimate tragedy of his life. I decided at that time I would not speak about Mr. Idlout's life because I felt it may have been more appropriate for an Inuit Member to speak of one of their own.

However, Mr. Speaker, last week my father passed away in Fort Providence. At that time, I began to think once again of Mr. Idlout and of all northern aboriginal people, be it Inuit, Dene or Metis, of his or my father's generation. It was this generation of aboriginal people that had to bridge the gap between the traditional lifestyle and the modern world. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, the adjustment came at a very dear price, not just in terms of human life but in the loss of dignity, identity, culture and tradition for people. It was leaders like Mr. Idlout and my father who struggled to keep our tradition and culture alive and well. Mr. Speaker, I personally would like to express my gratitude to this generation of our people. No one can truly measure what their struggle meant to my generation and future generations to come. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Pudluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know a number of the Members have a difficult time pronouncing names and forget what the real name is. I am not against you, Mr. Gargan. It is not "Oodlak". It is Joseph Idlout. I just wanted to make that correction. Thank you.

That would fall under the category of a language point of order. Members' statements. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The honourable Members will recall I have spoken previously about my constituents' effort to develop a successful turbot fishery off the east coast of Baffin Island. Since the outset of this project, Pangnirtung fishermen have found that in addition to the

ground fish, a large number of Greenland sharks are also included in the incidental catch. Mr. Speaker, these sharks damage the long line fishing gear used by our fishermen, resulting in increased operating costs. More important than that, perhaps, is the fact that hundreds and hundreds of pounds of shark must be left on the ice to spoil. Throughout history, Inuit have been the world's greatest conservationists, Mr. Speaker. It goes against our cultural values to see this waste take place with one of nature's creatures. If we are to take the lives of these fish, then we should be able to make use of them as our elders made use of animals and fish they harvested in traditional times.

This is made even more unfortunate by the fact that markets do exist that would enable Inuit to harvest and sell shark products. This would be one way in which we might make sure that these animals did not die without a purpose. Mr. lpeelee Kilabuk, who served in this House so well for many years, realized this, and he repeatedly called on the former Minister of Economic Development to make some initiatives in identifying market opportunities for shark products. Over and over, the response was that the department was working on it, but virtually no progress was ever made.

Mr. Kilabuk was promised, for instance, that Pangnirtung fishermen would be trained in salting and drying techniques that would reduce the costs for shipping the sharkskins. He was told the arrangements were being made with an American tannery to produce exotic leather. He was told that research was being carried out to investigate the international sale of market shark meat. In each case, Mr. Speaker, I believe the department failed to follow up....

Me. Mike, your allotted time has expired.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my Member's statement

Are there any nays? There are no nays; please continue, Me. Mike.

I know that this year again many sharks were caught in the long lines of our turbot fishermen, damaging costly equipment and reducing operational efficiency. Again this year Inuit fishermen are saddened by the fact that they had no choice but to leave hundreds of shark carcasses stacked on the ice to spoil because no market has been developed. I will be doing everything I can do to convince our current Minister of Economic Development and Tourism to make a serious effort to resolve this continuing problem. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. For Members' information, the flags have been moved; the penalty clock is now in full view.

---Laughter

Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make a statement on the upcoming Inuit Circumpolar Conference. As the co-ordinating agency for the 1992 Inuit Circumpolar Conference, the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation would like to thank the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Government of Canada, Inuvik Town Council and residents for their financial and kind support of the conference. The theme of the conference is "One Arctic, One Future."

The Inuit Circumpolar Conference general assembly and elders conference will take place in Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk during the week of July 20 to 24. There will be about 900 delegates related to the conference in Inuvik and Tuk and an estimated number of about 2000 tourists which will be in the region at that time,

The Inuvialuit Regional Corporation and myself would like to extend an invitation to everyone to come up to the conference, not only for the sessions that will deal with self-government, economic development social and health concerns but to also enjoy the many cultural activities to be performed by people coming from Greenland, Alaska, Chukotka and Canada. Chukotka is in Russia.

Each evening will feature a gala event of entertainers. On Monday they will have Canada night; Tuesday will be Alaska night; Wednesday will be Inuvik day, and they will also have the rock band from Quebec called Kashtin; Thursday is Greenland night; and Friday Chukotka night and a grand finale.

Other activities that will occur during the conference will be a northern games demonstration and food; Amway's Masters of the Arctic carving exhibit; Prince of Wales Northern Heritage cultural travelling exhibit; the Great Northern Arts and Music Festival and the Western Arctic Crafts Society exhibits....

Mr. Koe, your time has expired.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to finish my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If you plan to be at the conference and you have a few hours to spare, we are looking for volunteers. Please lend a hand and make our guests feel welcome. We wish to see you all in the Mackenzie Delta. Qujannamiik. Mahsi cho.

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Now that I can see the clock, I will take time for a Member's statement. Mr. Speaker, my Member's statement is basically an indication of concerns that have been expressed by constituents over the past couple of months. It is my understanding that individuals who have asked for an extension of educational leave - all educational leave has been denied by the government and by the appropriate departments. I have one individual, particularly, who has successfully obtained a BSW, bachelor of social work, over the past few years and has one year to go for an MSW, Master of Social Work, and unfortunately this request has been denied, not only through the Department of Social Services, I believe, but in conjunction with the Department of Education. This individual is a Metis, does not have status, and cannot look at other sources of funding. Mr. Speaker, I would urge the government to ensure that they give every opportunity to Metis people who want to pursue their avenue of education and to consider their potential of utilizing our own resources, once they obtain their degrees, and what benefit it is to all Northerners. I would strongly urge the government to look at these requests and consider all benefits that we derive as Northerners when they are deliberating their decision. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Members' statements. I have Mr. Pudlat next.

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, I stand today because of a concern from my constituency. I stand because of a concern of the people of Sanikiluaq. They previously had an interpreter who used to be with Social Services, and the person she worked with speaks only English. The people are interested in rehiring the interpreter within that department since the person who is the social worker cannot speak Inuktitut, and a lot of the constituents in that riding cannot speak English. They are interested in rehiring the interpreter, who is an Inuk, and I stand on that point today. It is causing a great concern because there are many unilingual people in that riding. That is my statement under Members' statements. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Members' statements.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to question O563-12(2), asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on June 18, 1992, concerning the catering services contract for Thebacha Campus. Arctic College treated the bid for the contract for Thebacha Campus cafeteria food services as a request for proposals rather than a tender. The college issued an advertisement the same day that the bid documents were made available. The documents were prepared according to the procedures for a request for proposals, which allows them to be evaluated on several criteria. The college determined that these procedures would allow a better evaluation of the bids for the cafeteria food services contract.

A request for proposals does not contain an overall price. As a result, the bid prices for the components of the cafeteria food services contract were not announced. The names of the bidders were announced and recorded at the opening of the bids on June 2, 1992.

Later, one of the bidders complained that all bidders should have been informed of the bid prices. Arctic College reassessed the criteria contained in the documents. The college decided the criteria only determined the eligibility of the bidders and that the decision on the contract would be based on price. A letter announcing the per-meal bid prices is being sent today to all the bidders.

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Education to clarify for me, in his return to me today he indicated that Arctic College treated the bid for a proposal rather than a tender. Can he clarify what the difference is between a proposal call and a tender call?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The proposal call does not include the overall price of the contract. Arctic College Thebacha Campus sent out a proposal call for the contract. As a result, the tender prices were not made public. Today there will be letter sent to all bidders stating the bid prices per meal.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, when the proposal call went out, why did the advertisement specifically read "invitation to tender" and not "request for proposals" as the Minister is stating?

Mr. Allooloo.

I will have to take that question as notice.

Question has been taken as notice. Oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Social Services. I am aware that Health and Welfare Canada recently published a comprehensive report on alcohol and other drugs used by Canadian youth. I was interested to note that the report did not include any information about the NWT or the Yukon. The report's authors stated that due to special sampling requirements, separate surveys will be conducted in the NWT and the Yukon. Can the Minister indicate to this House whether his department is working with the federal Health and Welfare directorate to ensure that these separate surveys will be completed?

Mr. Whitford.

The question has been taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of the NWT Power Corporation. They said a study was being conducted and there would be an increase in the rates even before the study is completed. Will it come into effect after the study is completed? I am just wondering if my understanding is correct in regard to that. The rates are being studied at this time in the NWT, and I am wondering if that will come into effect before the study is completed. Thank you.

Ms. Cournoyea

Mr. Speaker, I am just not quite clear on what the Member is asking. There is a study on the rates being conducted now which will be deliberated by the Public Utilities Board. There has been a rate increase, and the two can be done in different stages, so I am just not quite clear. There has been a rate increase, and to my understanding the rate increase has been put forward, and a study to look at the rate structure is going ahead. One does not hold up the other. I think that is the question.

Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, I did not make myself too clear. The increase, six per cent, will it come into effect before the study is completed? I apologize, will the six per cent come into effect before the study is completed? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, the six percent rate increase has been set now, so the increase has taken place. After the study or review, it could be rolled back, at which time people will get their money back if they have paid more. It was an estimation put in, and it is in place now. After the PUB looks at the information, and if it is only four percent, there will be readjustments for people who have paid six per cent

Oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the spring of 1991, a report was prepared entitled, "The Traditional Knowledge Working Group," and I believe this report was tabled in this Assembly. Also, at the time the previous Minister announced the intention to establish a traditional working group in the Northwest Territories, the Department of Culture and Communications was directed to co-ordinate the efforts of the traditional knowledge working group. Also, at this time, I would like to thank the Dene Cultural Institute, the Metis Heritage Association, the Inuvialuit Social Development Program, the Inuit Cultural Institute, the Government of the Northwest Territories, and others involved.

My question is to the Minister of Culture and Communications. What is the Minister doing with the recommendations that were made in this report?

If I could just interject, I wonder if the honourable Members, when they are posing a question, would try to keep their preamble short; and any thank you's should probably go in a Member's statement. Honourable Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct that in October 1989, the previous Government Leader, Dennis Patterson, established the working group on traditional knowledge. Last March, my department was requested by the executive director of the Dene Cultural Institute to hold back on taking any action until after members of the group had the chance to re-gather and consider their recommendations in light of the Strength at Two Levels report. She indicated that they might want to change some of the recommendations, or redirect some emphasis. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. There are many good recommendations made, quite a few of them. My question to the Minister is, does the traditional knowledge working group still exist?

Mr. Allooloo.

Mr. Speaker, I believe they were dissolved right after the report was made, but I am told that the executive director of the Dene Cultural Institute is able to put together the former members quite quickly to do the work that they feel is necessary in terms of the changes that have happened with the government and also the restraint and the report of Strength at Two Levels. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Have the Dene Cultural Institute or members of the traditional knowledge working group applied for any funding from this government to continue their work?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To my knowledge, no.

Oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education. I have received a copy of his letter to Mr. Kusugak, who is also a second year student of KTEP, Keewatin Teacher Education Program, and he stated in his letter that he was hopeful they would find a way to provide financial support to enable 10 students to enrol in the program in September. Can the Minister tell this House what is the status of talks with his department and the Keewatin Divisional Board of Education and Arctic College in light of this letter?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have directed my officials to have a meeting with the Keewatin Divisional Board to find ways in which we might be able to put some more resources into Keewatin teacher training. Up to this point I do not know what the department has done in terms of meeting with the Keewatin Divisional Board as I directed them to do. I will get back to the Member with detailed information as to how the assessment is being conducted.

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister

also tell me, in the event that there is no funding found among those three departments and agencies, has he been talking with the Minister of Personnel to try to have the students to continue their second year of the program?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Up to this point I have not been communicating with the Minister of Personnel to see if we could find resources. Generally the resources come from the Department of Education to educate teachers. This year we put additional resources into the Keewatin since the divisional board did not want to fund the teacher training or contribute to teacher training. As a result of the recent events, the divisional boards informed me that they may be able to put two students through this teacher education program. To address the rest of the students who want to go into second year teacher training, I have asked my department to find ways in which we could do this, but this would have to be resolved between my department and the divisional board.

Mr. Pudluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister for Renewable Resources is not in the House today, but I will ask the Government Leader this question. This year Greenland hunters were caught by Renewable Resources catching polar bears in the Canadian ice. Those polar bear skins have been taken away from the Greenland hunters. Grise Fiord has a concern that the polar bear caught by the Greenland hunters will affect their polar bear quota.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I will take that as notice and provide a response.

The question has been taken as notice. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation. This corporation provides essential service to consumers in both the eastern and western areas of the NWT. Now is the time, however, to consider the structure that will be used to replace the current power corporation in Nunavut following division. Can the Minister indicate what planning she has initiated to identify the best way to meet the power delivery needs of communities in an independent Nunavut territory?

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, there has been no specific plan to divide the Power Corporation. The facility requirements in the communities are programmed over a 10-year period in trying to put in or upgrade plants that serve the community. This is done as a total package presently. At the appropriate time that a Nunavut government is in place or the process begins, that would be the appropriate time for these types of discussions to begin.

The planning that is in place is to provide a good service to all communities in the NWT, and hopefully if we do that, however it is divided, whatever each territory takes over or each separate corporation would be advanced and in good condition and be a viable facility and be something that can last a community, according to the needs of the community. So what we are planning to do is just to build a good corporation with good facilities, and hopefully, when the time comes, if there is a decision to divide and have another corporation, those assets will be meaningful and will be of value to the new corporation. So we are continuing our 10-year plan and trying to put those facilities in place.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Education if he could advise this House as to why educational leave requested by employees of appropriate departments was denied?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To my knowledge, that was because the resources available for educational leave were reduced because of the restraint measures that the government had to take this year. As for specific employees, if the Member wishes, I would provide her with detailed information of any requests made to the government that were denied.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister indicates that because of restraint measures, educational leave requests were denied. Does he feel that the investment of northern people to pursue educational goals is not a priority of this government?

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a priority with our government to educate the northern people for positions they could hold in government. But because of restraint measures government had to take this year, I requested the department to put together more effective and more efficient programs. Since we are short of funds, we have to be more effective and more efficient. So, Mr. Speaker, I have asked my department to see if we could be innovative, to direct the educational leave or educational assistance that we provide to the students, and my department is working on that today. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister advise this House as to whether or not any educational leave was granted?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would have to take that question as notice because I do not know who got educational leave granted this year. Thank you.

The question has been taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Bernhardt.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister responsible for Social Services. In the Kitikmeot Region, we have a group home in Cambridge Bay under the guidance of Social Services. It is my understanding that once again a BC firm was awarded the contract for the care of the children. Also, the staff is from BC. I know of two native groups who had also bid on this contract yet were not given the contract even though their bids were much lower than the firm in BC. My question is, Mr. Speaker, why was the northern preference policy not applied in this case?

Mr. Whitford.

The question has been taken as notice. Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Education. I understand that the Department of Education has changed policies, reducing levels of financial assistance for students wishing to continue post-secondary education in the 1992-93 school year. Has the department changed their policies affecting the levels of financial assistance to post-secondary students?

Minister of Education, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct that I have asked the department to see if we could be more comparable to federal programs that are thought to be more adequate than our program. To this day the program has not changed. The department is looking at the two programs, the NWT program and the federal program, to see how we could be more efficient in terms of delivering student financial assistance to students who are taking advantage of this program. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

To the same Minister, if none of these policies have changed, then why are students being refused financial assistance for post-secondary education?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The programs that assist students are being reviewed at this point.

The only answer I could give at this point in terms of refusing students financial assistance is the fact that we are short of money this year, Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

If there have been no changes to the policies, then I am a little confused as to why people who qualify are not getting any assistance. I understand the financial implications, but there are some capable and qualified students. Why are they not getting assistance to continue and finish their degrees?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to take the question as notice. As I mentioned before, we are not providing financial assistance to those who are qualified because we have no money, but I would like to get back to the Member with a clearer answer, so I will take the question as notice. Thank you.

Thank you. If the question is taken as notice, there is not any need for an explanation after the fact as to why. Oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Under Members' statements, I made a Member's statement regarding the expeditions to the North Pole. I would like to ask the Minister of Economic Development a question. In the comments I made, I mentioned that there were only two people. I wonder if they were made aware, or if the Minister is aware if those two people are still up around the North Pole. Thank you.

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, the two remaining members of the Weber-Malakhov expedition turned back some 20 kilometres short of the North Pole last week, to walk back to Ward Hunt Island. Mr. Speaker, I know the Member is concerned about the costs of the earlier search for the third member of the expedition who walked back earlier, and I can inform the Member that the organizers of the expedition in Ottawa have been informed by the RCMP, following the expenses incurred earlier, that the expedition members were on their own from then on as far as support from the RCMP was concerned; so they went further with the knowledge and the clear understanding that the RCMP will not be responsible for any further costs associated with any rescue mission that may be necessary. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Government Leader with respect to the several vacancies for the deputy ministers in the government here in headquarters. Several positions have been vacant for a few months. Could the Government Leader inform the House when she intends to fill some of these vacancies? Thank you.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, in the very near future we will be considering that. We have gone through the process to inform and work with the working group on implementation of some of the consolidations. It will be very soon, this summer, probably before August. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question regarding the Great Slave Fishermen's Association. Recently the Great Slave Lake fishermen met with the Government Leader and the Minister of Economic Development. Can the Minister of Economic Development advise us what the government is doing to assist the fishermen in resolving their concerns regarding the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation?

Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is a division among the commercial fishermen on Great Slave Lake, and it centres around mostly the size of the operation between the "A" licences and the "B" licences. The department did a study last year, Mr. Speaker, and the breakeven point for some of those B fishermen would have been around $1.20 a pound. FFMC over the last few years have not been paying, or the fishermen have not been receiving, more than 50 or 55 cents a pound. It is a question of logistics. Simply, a B fisherman with a skidoo and a sleigh cannot haul enough fish off that lake to make a living. The B fishermen account for less than 10 per cent of the quota on Great Slave Lake. So there are some A fishermen who are making money and a lot of B fishermen who are not making a lot of money. They can lose up to $4000 in a winter.

Mr. Speaker, there has been discussion between the Department of Economic Development and Tourism and Renewable Resources that these people who are not catching a lot of fish and are doing it in some ways in a traditional style should be moved over to Renewable Resources, and that discussion is still continuing.

We realize that we have a problem. Part of it can be addressed by some of us moving over to Renewable Resources. Part of it can be addressed if we are able to find markets for those fish that are presently culled or not purchased by FFMC - and there is a considerable amount of waste in that regard. So we are investigating that one. What we would like to see to end the problems is that the two groups of fishermen get together; that is, the fishermen's federation and the other group, and resolve their differences. That would be the best thing, in my opinion.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.