Agreed.
--- Agreed
Debates of June 19th, 1992
Topics
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Clause 2. Agreed?
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
--- Agreed
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Clause 3, purchaser.
Agreed?
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
--Agreed
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Clause 4, non-purchaser. Agreed?
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
--- Agreed
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Clause 5, offence. Agreed?
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
--- Agreed
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Clause 6, evidence. Agreed?
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
--- Agreed
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
The bill as a whole. Agreed?
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
--- Agreed
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Is it agreed that Bill 6 is ready for third reading?
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
-Agreed
Bill 18, Young Offenders Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Bill 18, An Act To Amend the Young Offenders Act. Mr. Whitford.
Minister's Opening Remarks
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Tony Whitford Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I propose legislation that will allow the territorial government to recover funds from the federal government which have been spent in order to implement the Young Offenders Act. When the federal government legislated the Young Offenders Act, there was an agreement that the cost of implementation would be cost-sharable at a rate of 50 per cent. In order for costs of accommodation to be shared, the place of residence of a young offender had to be designated by the Commissioner of the NWT.
A number of facilities were used that were not designated before use, usually due to an urgent need for placement. By the time that these facilities were later designated, costs had been incurred that could not be shared. Once retroactive designation occurs, the cost for these non-designated facilities may be recovered.
After the cost-sharing agreement was reached, the federal government placed a cap on the amount that could be recovered. That cap was limited by how much had been spent during a previous year of expenditure. The base year was 1988-89. Should we be successful in obtaining this amendment, discussions will commence with the federal government to provide retroactive payment for claims which have been rejected thus far. If successful, this will also increase the ceiling which has been imposed based upon the 1988-89 expenditures.
A second part of the proposed amendment will allow the Minister of the department responsible for the care of young offenders to designate residences. This will significantly strengthen ministerial accountability by bringing the authority to designate closer to the Department of Social Services, and the department's ability to respond to the unique circumstances of the North will be increased. Outpost camps and alternative placements can be utilized so that young offenders can be kept closer to their home community. It will also give the Department of Social Services the flexibility to move quickly to designate a facility and will avoid the use of non-designated facilities in the future. The federal government has been consulted on this amendment and is in agreement. Those end my comments. Thank you.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Arngna'naaq.
Comments From The Standing Committee On Legislation
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister stated Bill 18 would amend the Young Offenders Act to allow the director of corrections to designate open custody facilities for young offenders. This amendment could make it possible for this government to take advantage of a federal/territorial cost-sharing program and recover a retroactive claim for dollars from the Government of Canada.
The standing committee was grateful to the Minister of Social Services, the Hon. Tony Whitford, and his officials for appearing at a public meeting of the committee on May 27, 1992. During this review the standing committee considered the proposed legislation from a range of perspectives. Questions were raised, for instance, about the government's liability for matters related to young offenders housed in non-designated open custody facilities since 1984. Committee will, no doubt, be interested in tracking any implications which arise from the fact that young offenders were, for a time, held in custody in facilities for which we had no statutory authority to designate. The standing committee also considered the process through which negotiations with the federal government would not proceed and questioned why the matter of cost-sharing young offenders costs in this manner had not been addressed earlier.
Members will continue to be interested in the negotiations for recovery of cost shared funding dollars which may have been lost without this amendment. While these matters are related to this bill, it should be neither necessary nor possible for the standing committee on legislation to do anything more than to raise these comments as an expression of general interest.
However, additional concerns were identified during the committee's public review and resulted in a motion which amended Bill 18. The first of these concerns related to the question of whether it is most appropriate for decisions about the designation of open custody facilities to be made by the director of corrections, or by the Minister. Members of the standing committee on legislation felt it was important that territorial young offenders' legislation be fashioned in such a way so as to ensure it was the Minister who would be held accountable for decisions related to the designation of facilities.
The committee has expressed its concern on a number of occasions about placing the statutory authority for critical regulatory activities with senior bureaucrats rather than the Members of cabinet. While it is quite appropriate for the Minister to delegate responsibility for decisions in these areas, the laws should be clear that it is the Minister who should be held accountable. The place where that accountability is exercised is here, in this Legislative Assembly. Honourable Members of the House are interested in ensuring the good government of the NWT, and those whom we have selected to form our Executive Council are responsible to the Assembly for their decisions. It is for this reason that the standing committee took the position that it should be the Minister who has the responsibility to determine which places or classes of places can be designated as open custody facilities for young offenders. There should be provisions which allow the Minister to delegate this decision-making authority where necessary, but the legislation must recognize that it is the Minister who accepts final responsibility for these decisions.
Members of the standing committee also noted that Bill 18 contained proposed amendments to section 28 of the existing legislation. One of these amendments would have added proposed subsection 28.(1.2) to illustrate the sorts of places which the Minister may wish to designate as open custody facilities.
Members noted that the types of places listed in proposed subsection 28. (1.3) included a private residence, a community residential centre, a group home, a child care institution, or a forest or wilderness camp. However, the standing committee on legislation was concerned that the bill seemed to exclude any reference to outpost camps. Since custodial placement of young offenders in outpost camps can be viewed as an a excellent rehabilitative option, Members of the committee were of the opinion that this was an admission that should be reversed.
Mr. Chairman, as you are aware, the new legislative process adopted by the 12th Assembly allows changes to be made to the substance or wording of bills while they are at the committee stage. This is what happened with Bill 18. A motion was passed during the public meeting on May 27th to stand down consideration of the relevant clause, and an amendment to the bill was prepared. Later that same day, the standing committee reverted to again consider Bill 18, at which time a motion to amend clause 2 was made and carried.
This motion changed the bill to make it clear that it is the Minister's responsibility to designate open custody facilities; to grant the Minister authority to delegate the powers and duties associated with the designation of open custody facilities while still making it clear that it is a ministerial responsibility; and to add outpost camps to illustrative listing of the types of places which could be designated as open custody facilities.
Mr. Chairman, under our new legislative process, bills can be amended by a motion of the standing committee only if the Minister concurs with the amendment. In this case, the Minister concurred with the committee's motion to amend Bill 18. As a result, the bill which honourable Members see before them in committee of the whole has been reprinted and differs from the version that was voted on at second reading. It now contains those changes that were made to the designation authority and the inclusion of outpost camps.
The standing committee on legislation was satisfied with the amended substance of the bill and with the position taken by the Minister during the review process. On May 27th, the standing committee carried a motion to report Bill 18 to the House as amended for consideration by committee of the whole. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. General comments? Mr. Zoe.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Henry Zoe North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Our chairman of the standing committee on legislation has indicated that some Members were concerned in regard to liability. Does the Minister know if there are any liability implications that could occur to our government because of the oversight of the government, in not designating those facilities?
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Mr. Minister.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Tony Whitford Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Although the possibility exists, there has been no reference at all over the years to any indication that this may be possible.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Mr. Zoe.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Henry Zoe North Slave
Mr. Chairman, some of the committee Members that attended the legislation committee hearings requested the Minister and his department to research to see if there is going to be any implication with regard to liability to this government.