Mr. Chairman, one of the difficulties I find myself in with regard to the whole issue of language or culture, is that aboriginal people are not getting caught up with this notion that it is really not them, as aboriginal people. I am saying, for example, it is with regard to individual competitiveness, as opposed to community or collective thinking. Where it is slowly losing that value and we are slowly turning to European values and saying that I am better than my brother next to me, or on that side of me, and I think that is a bad trend, the way things are going.

The example again is, just because we are hunters, we know terminology as a hunter, does not mean as much as a person that is in the Laing Building as an interpreter. What used to be a way of life, becomes a profession that requires individual competition. I think that, myself, I am also getting caught up in that world of competition, that dog eat dog world kind of a situation.

I never used to be that way, perhaps, but I am afraid that what used to be collective as aboriginal people is slowly being eroded. We are accepting more methods, or technologies, of accepting other cultures, and that really fragments us as people. I do not know if you noticed it, Mr. Minister, but, certainly I think that by some of your responses, I am getting the notion that you are also caught up into it yourself.

Thank you, I think that we are getting into a specialized field. In any given environment, we are under the language bureau. Mr. Minister, would you like to respond to Mr. Gargan?

Mr. Chairman, I was going to suggest exactly the same thing, that I do not know what Mr. Gargan's point has got to do with 5-14. That is the only comment that I have.

Okay, we are discussing the main estimates under Culture and Communications. Page 5-14 language bureau, total O & M of $2.823 million. Mr. Antoine. Sorry, I did not see your hand.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On Culture and Communications, under activity summary of language bureau, I just wanted to make a couple of comments. We have come a long way up to now in the north in regard to having our aboriginal language recognized officially by our Legislative Assembly, and I really appreciate it.

Earlier, at the beginning of today's sitting, I made a Member's statement in regard to language, and my mother tongue is the Dene language, labelled South Slavey by moola, but, to me, it is a Dene language. I really appreciate it. This language bureau is a vehicle, I guess, to ensure that our language continues forever. Because of that, I really wanted to mention that in the Minister's opening statement on this department, he talked about less service to non-governmental agencies, less travel and contracting.

I am afraid I must disagree with the move in this department because instead of increasing this activity, they are decreasing it, and I feel very strongly that this is a wrong move for me, as an endangered species.

---Laughter

I feel that this is a wrong way to do it. I feel strongly about it because, like I said in my opening Member's statement, all of these other languages that are identified in Canada, will always have a mother country that they could refer to if their language dies in this country. In our particular case, we have a struggle to maintain our language, and I think rather than lessening the amounts that are allocated to it, they should be increasing it.

I also wanted to talk about standardization. We have some language experts in my constituency that feel very strongly that standardization is working against our particular dialect in our area, and there is influence from other areas that are more dominant in this language bureau. I would like to have this department take a good close look at our concerns, and talk to the people who are experts in my particular area, because we feel that our concerns are not being addressed on the whole question of standardization.

One of my colleagues, Mr. Zoe, a couple of days ago, talked about his own particular area, and he made reference to two dictionaries that were made on the South Slavey language, and to me, and my experts, it is not adequate enough. Even though they have been done, they are not complete, and there are a lot of mistakes in there that we recognize. We want to have the opportunity to revisit and do it properly, and that is another concern that I have. I want to make it clear here to the Minister, and his officials, that this is what I would like to see done for my language, to ensure that it does not get endangered any further.

If we are going to speak my language, I am suggesting that we do it properly. That is what I tell a lot of the young people in my area. If you are going to speak English, you might as well speak it properly, and that goes the same for my language. If you are going to speak it, and you are going to teach it, do it properly. The only way to do that, is to use our experts who take a lot of time to train in linguistic arts, and the technology that they have developed is high skill in this area. If you worked closely with them, and possibly give them some resources if need be, to ensure that our languages are protected. Mahsi.

Thank you. Mr. Minister, would you like to make a comment?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree that there is no time to slow down in utilizing interpreters and translators. I do not think we are promoting that. What we are saying is, the employees of the government who are interpreters/translators, will not be providing a service in kind to non-government organizations, they will be travelling less.

Through this testing and licensing program, that we would like to introduce as a non-government body, we would be encouraging private sector of the interpreters/translators be utilized everywhere as much as possible, because there is a need out there. It has already been identified to us, the government, do not stop the interpreting service to other organizations or companies, or the private sector, because we need them. Therefore, with these private interpreters/translators as a business, they will then be able to be tested and licensed as qualified interpreters through, if it is necessary, our training programs. As long as they are tested and recognized by professional interpreters/translators, and some might be from the private sector, nonetheless we are not trying to reduce the level of service, or availability of interpreters/translators.

What we are saying is that government employees, not the private sector -- we are still encouraging that profession to expand. Mr. Antoine, I am open to a discussion on that one. I will probably will need a lot of input on how best to maximize that, and at the same time respecting the financial restraints.

In the area of standardization of the writing system, I specifically said the writing system, not the oral tradition. I said yesterday, I for one, will not condone, or put up with this idea of standardizing oral traditions, oral language, or any kind of dialect, whether you are in Grise Fiord or Sanikiluaq. Our dialectic differences are all so different, they are colourful, and they are very nice. I do not want that to be somehow dissolved into something else, through time.

However, standardization of the writing system is important because you can then use the same keyboard operators to be able to utilize both dialectics, because even if, I am not an expert on the Grise Fiord dialect, for example, I know how to write their writing system, then I will be able to do some service for them according to the way it was presented to me. It is only the writing system that I am talking about in standardization of the Dene writing system, not in the oral tradition at all. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Qujannamiik. Ms. Mike, are you still on? Are you still on, Mr. Antoine? On my list I have Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a concern and general comment to the language bureau. The employees, especially the interpreters, the person years should have been raised in thinking of the Commissioner of Official Languages, that the communities are aware of the Commissioner of Official Languages, and that there will be more work for the government.

I know today, that we are always short of interpreters and they are very busy. They always have work to do and that they also have priorities, and the less priority has to be translated into Inuktitut, sometimes it takes time to get them translated into Inuktitut. As you know, Mr. Chairman, prior to my becoming an M.L.A., elected as a M.L.A., I was an interpreter for a number of years, and I know very well that the interpreters are very busy, and that it is very stressful during session. They have priorities, rush work, they have a goal to work within those days, and I know myself that they go through a very stressful time. I know this for myself.

Mr. Gargan stated earlier, and I would like to add to his comments, that I agree with what he said. We cannot, especially the interpreters cannot, know everything. Mr. Gargan will know names of the wildlife, some will be more specialized in health, and for today, when they complete their training, there is no way for them to move on. Perhaps, if they were to specialize, for example, in the courts, and the staff of the language bureau specialized in the health section, and after their training is completed, they could the be extended for further specialized training.

There is no training for these areas, for instance, in assistance in the court, and if I wanted to have a job as an assistant lawyer, there is no such training for those things. Perhaps, if I went back to college or university, it would take several years to become a lawyer, yet, these are available.

For this reason, for the lack of further training, good workers are often discouraged, and they quit their jobs because their training is completed. (Translation ends)

Language development in getting the interpreters into specialized areas, such as legal terminology, because there are interpreters who do have specific interests with their jobs, and they go out of their way to learn more about it.

Yet, there is not any training available, because the number of interpreters that we have within the government might not even have the time to take the training if they wanted to get into specialized areas. So, I really feel that we should see some growth in this department, looking at the fact that we do have, now, a Language Commissioner in place who will probably be receiving a lot of complaints from different aboriginal groups on translated matters.

That is all I have to say, Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Mike. Mr. Minister, what is a prospect for getting into a specialized profession?

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, let me say that the language bureau staff, and interpreters have been reduced to six percent, the staff person years have reduced to six percent.

However, the reduction of person years to six percent for them to travel to the communities, and for the outside interpreting purposes, are paid through the government. I am pleased to see that in some departments, person years are reduced, but in the Language Bureau it stays the same. (Translation ends)

If there is a requirement for specialized interpreting training, then the department can host that with the cooperation of the Justice Department, and Arctic College also can be assigned to contract those specialized interpreter/translator training.

As I said before, I would encourage an association, or some sort of a body, created independently from the government, of the translators/interpreters as a group, or an association, to test and license those interpreters/translators, and that specialized interpreter/translator also would be recognized accordingly.

For example, if a doctor is a general practitioner, so is a translator/interpreter; if a doctor becomes a specialized person, like a plastic surgeon, or a general surgeon, he will be recognized. So, would the interpreter/translator become specialized in the court interpreting, or health areas, as you said, in terms of biological names, then that person would be tested and licensed as a specialist in that area. We could work on that cooperatively.

In the time of financial restraint right now, something much more imaginative will have to be created, rather than just going ahead and continuing to increase the budget estimates for that area. This is very important, but other things also dear to the public are, social services, housing, health, education, and for their own well being.

So, unfortunately, when we suffer under financial restraint, language will also suffer under the restraint, but I am happy to report to you that no person years have been lost in that one. Thank you.

Qujannamiik. Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the 15 years that I was an interpreter/translator, the language bureau always had the smallest budget, and they still continue to have the smallest budget. There is also a lack of recognition of the profession as an interpreter/translator within the government. A lot of times they are not treated as professionals, and as well, when you really think back to just 17 years ago, most of the communities were just becoming settlements. Through the interpreters, they became settlement councils, they became hamlet status, and it is through the interpreters, the north has developed a great deal in smaller communities.

All I am saying, is that for a number of years we have had the same person years, yet our department continues to grow. This is from a demand of service from this department.

I am not disagreeing with you. In time of restraint that we are going through, because of the Languages Commissioner being in place now, all I can see is the work load of the interpreters just increasing, and there is no growth in person years with the interpreters. Thank you, that is all I have to say.

Thank you, Ms. Mike. I believe the Minister is going to respond. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I have no disagreement with that one. There is a very high demand on the interpreter corps. There is a lot of demand now on a lot of department personnel because most of us are working on a skeleton, and I never could believe that until I got into the government. I was scouring for available staff that could help me. However, I have no disagreement with that one, but hopefully, we will be able to balance the budget, and be able to get back to a normal service that the public demands of us. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Now you are in charge. Now you can take corrective action. Mr. Koe, did you have your hand up? Okay, we are discussing the 1992-93 main estimates, activity summary, language bureau, total operational maintenance of $2.823 million. Thank you.

Page 5-15, managing of heritage, total O & M of $2.206 million. Mr. Todd, from Rankin.

I wonder if, perhaps, you could let me get some clarification on the original documents that we got on this activity, somewhere in the total of $2.206 million. On the one here, it is now $2.772 million. Am I missing something? Where did this $566,000 for capital come from, and why was it not before the Standing Committee on Finance during our review? Has it been slipped in here so that we can get it through?

According to the information that I have here, total O & M of $2.206 million. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Total O & M, $2.206 million, total capital $566,000, total expenditure $2.772 million. I think that is what Mr. Todd is missing.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you.

Mr. Todd, even financial wizards sometimes misunderstand those things. We are on the museum heritage. Mr. Koe.

In the preamble on page 5-15, museum heritage activities responsible for doing whatever they are going to do, they provide advice, technical support and financial contributions, supporting community heritage projects. Can someone advise me as to how many community heritage projects are in the process at this time?

Mr. Minister, will you provide that information?