Thank you. Page 5-13, publications and production, total O & M of $937,000.

Agreed.

Thank you. Page 5-14, language bureau, total O & M of $2.823 million. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister, do we have, in place, a policy of any kind with regard to the established profession of aboriginal languages interpreters?

Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I have also stated that in my opening remarks, that we will be encouraging having the interpreter/translator society or certification board, however you want to call it, independent from the government that will be able to certify, and test the interpreter/translators.

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. Do you have a policy with regard to interpreters? Do we have a weight scale, the qualifications, do we have something in place that determines the degree of qualifications that an interpreter has, and whether or not they are paid according to their qualifications?

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask Mr. Gilday to answer that question.

Mr. Gilday.

Mr. Chairman, the interpreter/translator levels are established with training levels, with a separate salary, and then qualifications levels, interpreter one, interpreter two.

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

I realize that you do have training levels. Do you have any levels with regard to people that just know it, because of their ability, as a Dene person I should know my own language, I do not need to be trained in that area. Do you determine anything with regard to that, or do you have to go through a government institution to learn your own language, in order to qualify for a level in salary?

Thank you. Do we have a professional recognized in stages? Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You can have a straight test for your language skills, however, sometimes we can recognize that a person is fluent, or a person is expert in his/her own language, can be tested for competency, for the level one, level two, interpreter one, interpreter two, and not necessarily have to take a course. Terminologies that are used by the interpreters, the method they are presented, using the common word, rather than multiple choice words for 29 different ways of saying snow for example, is being put on the test. So, that the person, when they are interpreting for the government, that the similar word or standard word is used for the purpose of legal documentation or other documentation that is required. In that respect yes, the testing is necessary in order to have the person be certified as a interpreter or translator. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

I do not know, with regard to myself, whether or not I have reached the potential, or the limits of my ability, to speak my own language. I could say that without any doubt, that if I go to my own community, and I see an elder, he qualifies far more superior than I would, with regard to that same language.

How do you determine the limits or qualifications, although I know my own language, I do not qualify myself as being the real expert in that. If I was to do a test, it would probably limit my qualifications based on the test. In other words, I cannot go beyond what is in the test itself. You are not going to get that unless you refer to a person that is older, or more qualified than I am. How is that determined? The level of qualifications must be determined by something. What I am saying, is that the most qualified people, in my community, I could give you their names, but I do not think they were ever consulted about that. How do you say that this person took the test, and he has reached his level according to the test, but he cannot go beyond because we have not reached that far yet?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let us get this very clear, that most of us are fluent, even more fluent than interpreters and translators, simply because we are hunters, we know the terminology of the land better, or because we are seamstresses, or because we are professors of the historical languages of the history. That does not give us a skill to become translators or interpreters. The interpreting and translating is not strictly on the language skills, knowledge of the language, it is not straight on that.

You are tested on your consecutive interpreting or simultaneous interpreting, in fact some interpreters are specialized in court interpreting, and terminologies that are used in court cases. These are different requirements to become an interpreter/translator, not just a knowledge of the aboriginal language or English language, so that is only part of it. Just because you know more languages than the other person, does not make you a better interpreter in that system. It is hard to explain.

This is the method they use. It is a technical method that is used for consecutive, simultaneous, and also for specialization. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo, you have the floor.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not have much concern about the issues that my colleague, Mr. Gargan, is raising, but maybe I should take a different tact on this particular matter.

You know, I, for one, will not challenge the knowledge of the elders in our community, or those who speak our language, but I think we have to recognize that there is a professionalism that is important in the work that interpreters/translators do. In fact, what is interesting, is in many cases they are involved in the development of new words, new terminology, and developing, new ways of saying old things, in other words.

In many respects, they also have the responsibility of having the capacity not only to speak the language, but also write the language. In many instances, this is just as important as the oral transmittal of that language from one generation to the next, because I think that many of our aboriginal people in the languages that we speak, we want them to survive, but we cannot always depend on the idea of oral protection.

The fact is, the more we develop our language in terms of the ability to read and write those languages, the more likely our languages will survive. I say that not to be rude, or to be disrespectful to those who speak the language, but I can say to you that having been from a language that has been written since the 1800's, the Gwich'in, I respect a great deal the Slavey, the Dogrib, and the Inuit, for being able to orally transmit that language to their families.

We are a language group that is deeply in danger of disappearing. I look at the young people, and the translators that are here with us today, the Gwich'in, anyhow, those young people that speak the other Dene languages. I think that I could recall when we were first here in 1979, we had no one, and I think we ought to be proud of the fact of how far we have come. I think that we have a long way to go yet, but we have to be proud of where we have come from, and hopefully, it is a sign of the advancement of our own aboriginal languages, no matter what region we are from. I just wanted to make that point, because sometimes we have a tendency of arguing the same issue from a different perspective.

Nonetheless, our intentions should be to protect our aboriginal languages, at least I assume that is the same argument Mr. Gargan is raising.

I think we have to respect the professionalism of the people that do the job for us. I think one of the things that sometimes we overlook is this idea, and I want to point this out to the Minister, who is also the Minister of Education, that language teachers, professional language teachers, are recognized for that in most other jurisdictions across the country. Simply because you are a teacher, does not necessarily mean you are a professional in language development, and I think that has to be considered. I think the same thing has to be done with our interpreters/translators, that in most other jurisdictions, when you are dealing with French interpreters, there is a special recognition for their expertise.

The same thing with language teachers, we cannot always use the argument that in our schools, our aboriginal people have to also be involved in the teaching of our aboriginal languages. I think they are important, but at sometime we have to make a distinction between their role as teachers in all the courses, and their role as language educators.

They are two different things, and we have to work in this system to ensure that is, in fact, the case, because that alone will help the situation that Mr. Gargan has raised. I think we have to move on, and say, let us get on with developing our language, and ability to read and write the systems, and the languages that are available to us.

I think the same concerns I have expressed are what Mr. Gargan has said. The problem is that for us it is unclear, because there are no clear guidelines, there are no policies, and there is no recognition, professional recognition, of the people who are serving us in those languages. So, it makes it difficult for us to appreciate how committed the government is to protection of our aboriginal languages. That is all I wanted to say.

Thank you. I, too, recognize the interpreters/translators that work for the Assembly; work in different regions, who work in the different communities. I think translating/interpreting is very stressful, a very challenging profession, and I think the interpreters/translators deserve to be recognized, because they are professional, and do a very good job. Mr. Minister.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The interpreters invent words for the sake of inventing words, rather, help to invent words, that can be related to something that is new, or old.

For example, if I go see my grandfather, and ask him, "how do you say microcomputers in Inuktitut?" I think he would have a hard time explaining to me what the Inuktitut terminology is for that one, or, he might know. If I say, " how do you say environment in Inuktitut" he may give me eleven or twelve words for that particular word. However, for the purpose of enquiry, that common terminology has to be used. So, the interpreters come up with avatiliri, or the microcomputer, qaritaujaujaq, depending on whether it is a regular computer, or a microcomputer.

So, these things we will not find from your elders, no matter how much you respect their preservation and promotion of traditional languages, or words. So, we recognize that.

We are not here to eliminate the old words, or traditional words that are used. On the cultural programs, we will protect them, promote them, and enhance them, by the purpose of the language bureau. They have a much bigger responsibility than just protecting the language. By usage, also enhance it by being able to come up with the modern word that is used in English, or in the other language. If I could remember correctly, those microcomputers, jets, or anything like that, are not in old English. The English language is always invented to keep up with the technology. If the technology that has just been invented or introduced does not have everyday language in English, then there is a new language developed for that, a new word developed for that, or a new name developed for that. Inuktitut, for example, language bureau, or in Dene, for instance, have to come up with words that are not available in the aboriginal language that are required by this Legislative Assembly or the Government of the Northwest Territories.

So, I have no disagreement whatsoever with Mr. Gargan or with Mr. Nerysoo in protecting, promoting, and enhancing traditional languages as used. Qujannamiik.