Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, yes, we do have unfunded positions. Perhaps our Finance Director could explain more on the Main Estimates. I am told that the advice for this is not necessarily what the department has spent, but it was budgeted through the budget exercise.

Thank you. Mr. France.

That is correct. The $3.541 million dollars represents an estimate, or our revised forecast, of what we had intended to spend by the year end, and we had re-allocated funds from within the department from other areas to increase that particular forecast. The amount that we actually spent would be close to that particular amount, because it is what we anticipated. There would be another amount that we would have spent during the year. So this just represents a forecast, and in the forecast we did not adjust the person years. We should have, but we did not.

Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr Chairman. Yes, we are creating figures for salary, and they are being created for the Public Accounts Committee. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Menard.

What we have done over the past year, is tried to stay within the budget, and not affect the services we give out to people in training and education. We have cut 21 positions that were unfilled, and we also cut 4 person years, and re-allocated within the department, to make sure we cover the areas of our mandate to keep giving service to communities.

So we feel we can still accomplish our mandate with the person years that we have at this time, even though we have cut the redundant positions, and cut four main person years. We have, for example, more job sharing, we also have consolidated different jobs, so one person does two functions instead of one.

So what we are trying to do is more with less, and still keep the same level of service. We might not be able to accomplish it, but we are trying, and we hope at the end of this year that we can accomplish all that we set out to do.

Thank you. Directorate. Mr Koe.

On the same line of questioning. I guess, by my immediate reaction, I have the same issue that Mr. Dent had. Person years does not seem to reflect what is actually happening, based on these revised forecasts from 1991-92 and what is happening today. Can we get copies of allocations of person years for all activities, because all your activities except one, I think, have the same trend? I would appreciate it.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we could pull that information.

Thank you. Directorate, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under the directorate, the top paragraph indicates that this is where all the funding for the headquarters regional area superintendent and administrative staff come from. The second paragraph deals with the directorate, directs activities to the departments towards its goals and objectives. The directorate advises, proposes, and implements public policy initiative aimed at development of local governments, and like I said in my general comments, I felt that the four communities of Jean-Marie, Nahanni Butte, Trout Lake, and Wrigley have not received the full benefit of the goals and objectives as outlined by this department. I want to ask the Minister, why have these four communities been left in the condition they have been, up to this point? Is there a different set of policies from this department dealing with these four communities, or are they part of all the other communities in the Northwest Territories? I was wondering if there are another set of standards directed toward these four communities?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

With respect to the Member's communities, these communities are not considered organized or incorporated communities, therefore we have no policies as a department, in terms of assisting the communities. Under our policies, approved by the Executive Council which we are guided by, we assist communities where they are incorporated settlements, hamlets, or villages, towns and cities.

Normally these communities, where there are bands, the federal government is responsible for those, and for their community. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Mr. Chairman, I am very disappointed in this answer because these communities, the chiefs and band councils, are predominantly Dene communities, and because they are Dene, they are neglected by this government.

That is the problem with being a Dene in the north, this government does not recognize you as a Dene, for who you are, and that is what we have been saying all along. I think that everybody is so worried about the public government, and because you are a Dene you are not public, that is not fair at all, and I could use some stronger words right now the way I feel.

You have got to change that. You cannot say that is a federal government responsibility. We take your answer, we go to the federal government, and they are going to turn around to these communities and say that it is the G.N.W.T.'s responsibility. So we are caught in the middle. This is not something to sweep under the rug any more, you have to grab it, and deal with it.

I do not know what it is, is it this government's policy, or is the department's policy, that states that bands are not public, and therefore they do not qualify for the types of services everybody else gets? I am very disappointed and upset with this government, you have to change that way of thinking. I think it is a colonial type of thinking.

We have a majority of aboriginal people in this Legislature here, we should get away from this type of thinking. You have to accept these people for who they are, they are entitled to all of these services, I do not care whether they are treaty Dene, or white, or whatever.

That is what I have been getting at in my general comments. The people, in Nahanni Butte for example, have a well in the school for their water supply, and there is a little garden hose coming out of the side of the school. That is the water supply for the whole community, and the water is not good because it is not treated. So they take their boats and their five gallon pails, they go up the river a couple of miles to a creek, and then they get their water and come back.

Their sewer wagon is useless because the road to the dump is too swampy. They say that will be upgraded, but the truck cannot pass it, so what they do is whenever they fill up the sewer tank, they find an outhouse and dump it in there. That is the kind of treatment the Dene people get from this government. That has come right down to the basics. How would you like to live in that community? That is degrading.

People wonder why Dene people get into social problems and drinking, and so forth. If you keep treating people like that, sure they are going to do that. This policy is backwards, it is a colonial type of thinking. I do not agree with it, and I think that this department has to do something about it right away.

In the community of Wrigley, the people in this community have a lot of pride in who they are. They trap, and they hunt and live off the land, but if these are the programs and services that everybody in the north has, then they should have it too. Just because they are not incorporated, they want to be chief and council, not a hamlet or whatever, they should not be forced to do something that they do not want to do.

That is why there is a third paragraph, community self-government concept, currently being advanced to meet the aspirations of community governments. There you go. That should have been in place a long time ago. That is why the people in the north -- in the smaller communities -- are fighting for self-government, to be recognized for who they are, and the way they organize their communities.

I think that there are two standards here, one for the Dene, and one for everyone else. I think that has to change. The answer that you have to go to the federal government for responsibility, it does not hold water, because they are going to turn right around and say go to the territorial government. It has been going on for years. I have been a chief since 1974, and that is the kind of answer that I have been getting since 1974, back and forth, back and forth.

This is a place where if you tell the world that you represent everybody, then you are going to have to include those communities as well, give them the type of services, the funding, and the resources that they are entitled to. Mahsi.