Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department has provided Municipal Capital and Operations and Maintenance Program to community governments for over 20 years. These programs have evolved, and have been generally successful in meeting the basic needs of municipal governments for infrastructure, administration and services, and program delivery.

For the 1992-93 fiscal year, estimates for operations and maintenance of $59.417 million are proposed. An increase of 1.3 percent over 1991-92. There are 148.8 person years proposed in 1992-93. An increase of four person years from 1991-92.

In May of this year, Cabinet approved the municipal operating and capital assistance policies. These policies are directed at providing programs of assistance to community governments, which promote greater autonomy and accountability.

The department recognizes the local way of getting things done, it encourages self-sufficiency, and the development of strong community governments.

To establish equity in allocation of funding, provisions are made in the policies, based upon criteria standardized for all municipal governments. Municipal governments should contribute to the capital costs of their municipal infrastructure, and should be involved in the planning, management, and implementation, of capital infrastructure projects depending on their willingness and ability.

Within this framework, financial assistance should be sensitive to the financial constraints on both the government of the Northwest Territories and municipal governments. Communities, to reduce costs and increase efficiency, must be sought by the department, and the municipal governments working together.

The municipal operating and capital assistance policies provide a framework for financing municipal governments. The policies provide the municipalities with the level of assurance that they will receive an equitable proportion of the overall funding available.

Consultations with the N.W.T. Association of Municipalities, as well as other local government forums, have indicated there is sufficient support at municipal levels for these policy initiatives.

In the coming year, the department proposed budgetary growth of approximately $3 million, is partially offset by program reduction of $2.2 million. Much of the reduction results from the department finding better, and more affordable ways to using the resources available.

Each program in the department has come under close scrutiny, to ensure value for money is obtained. We are seeking to do better, what we now do well.

For this year, the department budgetary goal is largely dictated towards assisting local governments to maintain municipal buildings, and infrastructure provided with the assistance with this government. As well increased assistance is being provided to municipalities for inflationary growth of six percent, due to the electrical rate increases announced by the Public Utilities Board, April 1, 1992.

Additional expenditures are proposed to quicken the ongoing political development of the settlements, and settlement corporations. In total, an additional $1.032 million is proposed for transfer payments to hamlets to assist in their operational costs. These additional resources will assist hamlets to maintain essential services. Despite these increases, the department continues to hear of the growing pressure on municipal coffers, resulting from new roads, new and expanded public buildings, and associated infrastructure growth in municipalities.

Mr. Chairman, the settlements also require additional financial resources as a result of taking on new responsibilities for construction of infrastructure, for further acquisition of needed equipment, and an additional $112,000 has been proposed in 1992, and 1993, to ensure basic levels of municipal services can be provided in settlements, and in incorporated settlements.

Mr. Chairman, in our budget, we continue to place emphasis on providing accessible recreation facilities for all community residents. Increased funds of $396,000 are proposed for the recreation facilities operating subsidy, to assist in the operation of newly constructed recreation facilities. The department, in anticipated settlement of the Gwich'in land claims, has proposed funding to compensate the town of Inuvik for the selection of municipal owned, and developed land within their municipal boundaries.

The department is proposing $152,000, in anticipated finalization of Gwich'in and T.F.N. claim agreements to administer the new Commissioner's lands, obtained through additional back land transfers from the Government of Canada.

The new resource requirement will be offset from new land revenue associated with the transfer of these Crown lands, estimated at $325,000.

Mr. Chairman, in response to the Expenditure Management Program introduced by the government, the department saved over $1 million dollars in 1991-92. The department has a proven track record of good fiscal management, as evidenced by the 1991-92 savings.

For 1992-93, further reduction measures are necessary. A program reduction of $800,000 is planned for the Water and Sewage Services Subsidy Program. The reduction will be implemented by the continuing effort to lower economic rates for water and sewage services in hamlets, and by reducing excess surpluses in hamlet water/sewer operating accounts.

These measures should realize the savings noted without affecting program delivery to community residents. The department is also proposing to reduce salaries and wages in 1992-93 by $500,000, and four person years. This reduction is being achieved without adversely affecting programs and services to the public, while minimizing the disruptions to staffing levels and moral.

A comprehensive human resources strategy was developed by the department, allowing for these reductions without significantly lowering service levels to our major client/community governments. There will be more sharing, and better integration, of work loads within the department.

Mr. Chairman, additional reductions of $446,000 in 1992-93 are proposed for other operational maintenance. This reduction will, no doubt, have some effect on the department's ability to carry out its responsibility, but we are committed to minimize the impact of this cut in funds by economizing, and good planning.

The Sport North Federation contribution has also been reduced by $250,000. Travel and operational areas in the federation will be affected. The department, and Sport North are consulting on a continuing basis to explore creative options for the Federation to continue to finance a high level of services to the northern sport community.

The Homeowner's Property Tax Rebate Program has been reduced by $245,000 in 1992-93. This program encourages home ownership in the N.W.T. This reduction has reduced the maximum allowable property tax rebate in the municipal taxation areas by 25 percent, from $400 to $300, and from $100 to $75 per homeowner in the general taxation areas.

Finally, the Recreation Salary Subsidy Program has not received additional funds to allow current subsidy levels be maintained for recreation leaders in 1992-93. This reduction was a choice to fund all current positions under the program, and has meant a lowering of salary subsidy to all 73 positions funded.

In a period of severe financial restraint, and within the resources available, I am providing funding which will allow for greater local priority setting. I recognize our partnership role, as the bulk of my department's funding is for direct community programs and services. Community governments know this, and I am confident they will ensure there is good value for the public's money.

Mr. Chairman, I will be happy to answer any questions, and I would like to request that I be allowed to bring in witnesses.

Thank you. I wonder if the chairman of the finance committee would like to make an opening remark, before we call the witnesses? Member for Thebacha.

Comments By The Standing Committee On Finance

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance, I would like to propose the following motions.

In respect to some of the concerns, the Standing Committee on Finance felt that at a time when we are supposed to be preparing local governments for devolution, the committee is concerned with reductions in duty travel and training, which will adversely effect community support. If this is allowed to persist, decisions will continue to be made at the centre, in conflict with the Assembly's decentralization objectives.

The departments have to reduce the budget, and it should not be at the expense of the communities. It should be from headquarters's administration. I believe it is the concern of many Members of the Assembly.

Thank you. Motion is in order. To the motion. Are you ready for the question?

Question.

Question has been called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Are there any further comments? Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just as the territorial government is struggling with drastic changes, so are the local governments. The communities are going through different levels of development and devolution and, hence, need some direction and support from the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs in order to successfully deal with these changes. Lessons learned in effective managing changes in the territorial government, should be of a benefit to the community.

So therefore, on behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance, I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs include an objective in the 1993/94 Main Estimates to implement a training and support program for hamlet settlement councils, and municipalities where applicable, to increase knowledge, change attitudes and behaviours, empower municipalities and their staff, structure interaction, priorize, set time lines and otherwise community involvement in reshaping northern government.

Motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will support the motion, but I just want to make a couple of comments. In lieu of responsibilities of the department in dealing with municipalities, tax-based municipalities are empowered to deal with many of these items that are in this motion. The provisions to provide support, I agree with, not necessarily to direct municipalities, but tax-based municipalities, in which to do things. I just wanted to make that comment.

Also we have to recognize the initiatives that are coming out of the community transfer initiatives as expounded by this government. So taking those into consideration, I will be supporting this motion.

Thank you. To the motion. Are you ready for the question?

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Are there any further comments? Member from Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in regard to an integration of community problems, the current departmental approach to program delivery does not seem to be working well. There is a need for an integrated and coordinated approach to dealing with community problems. The government has indicated that they were going to do this, however, there is little evidence of it taking place.

Transfer of responsibilities to the communities should encourage dealing with the strengths, the weaknesses, the opportunities and threats in a community as a whole. For example, we know we have a serious problem in education that is being affected by the social and economic circumstances. The solution has to involve all departments, local governments and the public working together and sharing resources.

With this, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask my colleague, Mr. Nerysoo, from Mackenzie Delta, to put forth the motion on behalf of the committee. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs take the lead role and coordinate all municipalities in the Nunavut area, to carry out comprehensive community reviews to develop municipal strategies to prepare for the community transfer initiative.

Further, that the committee recommends that an appropriate agency be established to lead and coordinate in the western Northwest Territories, a development of self-government and the transfer of programs and services to communities and/or regions; and further, that the agency be directed to coordinate the development of a policy, and receive proposals and negotiate with the appropriate aboriginal organization and/or community, on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories for transfers to communities and/or regions.

And, further, that any policy developed or proposal submitted, should take into consideration the existing, and future constitutional, and land claims agreements that recognize aboriginal self-government; and further, that any policy should not be considered as replacing federal jurisdiction or responsibility for aboriginal people within the Constitution of Canada.

The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Chairman, when I first had an opportunity to review the proposed motion 59-12(2), I had no particular problem with the motion. However, I can indicate to you that the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, and Aboriginal Rights and Constitutional Development indicated to the House, that there was a process in the western Arctic, western Northwest Territories, that allowed for the aboriginal leadership, along with representatives from this Assembly, including the Minister, that worked out an approach in the western Northwest Territories.

Now, I also wanted to say that it was not my intention, in any way, to stand in the way of the communities and the people, and the representatives from the Nunavut area. I think that they feel comfortable in dealing with Municipal and Community Affairs and, as such, I think that I want to support that.

I want to say to my colleagues, that they were supportive of the initiative that was taken by the aboriginal leadership in the western Northwest Territories and accepted the amendments that had been proposed. I also want to say, that I had an opportunity to speak to my colleagues in this House, and I know that some of them have raised concerns.

I know that, for instance, Mr. Antoine has made it clear that there are concerns. Every other Member, Mr. Koe, Mr. Gargan, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Mr. Zoe, have all made it clear that there were concerns. Now, in dealing with the motion, it was necessary to ensure that aboriginal people in the west were respected in terms of the process that they were embarking upon, and that it was not our intention, in any way, to reduce the ability of every community or every aboriginal organization, or for that matter, any organization, to pursue what they felt was in their interest in developing constitutional development in the context of what they thought was in the interest of their community or region.

I think that this will move the process further ahead, rather than stop it, and I hope that it will accommodate, I believe it will accommodate, the initiative of the Minister in the western Northwest Territories, including moving ahead with the creation of Nunavut, and accommodating the residents of the Nunavut area. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will not be supporting the motion, but I just want to speak to the motion at this time. Some points I want to make, are that the regional tribal councils exist, and are actively used by communities to further community agendas today. These are much more likely to further development of community self-government in my particular area.

It is today's practice for communities of given regions to look to each other for support in furthering community interests and the Government of the Northwest Territories' central administration should really come to grips with that, and accept it as a given, and use it to further good government. Each region looks differently at their own future, and this is quite evident in the west, and in my particular part of the Northwest Territories.

It seems that the regional councils would be the agencies in the best positions to promote community interests and the development of community delivery of programs and services, from my point of view. I am concerned about the need for aboriginal cultural ways to define and develop community governments from the cultural context of today, recognizing aboriginal history and what has been going on in the development of the west.

I guess our point of view from the west, is that the regional tribal councils are vehicles that have to be recognized at this time. There are also chiefs and band councils that are quite strong, and there are also municipalities that want to be involved in this initiative.

When the committee of political leaders spoke and the direction that they have been taking in community self-government and community transfers, it changed direction from its original intention of looking at the overall constitutional development in the west and looking at a specific area and so, all of these different groups have to be included somehow, and I just want to re-emphasize that point. Mahsi.

To the motion. Mr. Todd.

Yes, Mr. Chairman, just for clarification purposes, I would like to indicate that this motion is different from the Standing Committee on Finance's motion 59-12(2) of the report, and it came about as an effort to ensure that all of the concerns of the Northwest Territories were met. I just wanted to add that for clarification purposes.

Thank you. To the Motion. Are you ready for the question? Mr. Gargan.