This is page numbers 1089 - 1111 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

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Committee Motion 172-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 51
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1107

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, it all has been said before. You know, we have said it all before, the department has said it, the Minister has said it, the committee has said it, what we need now is to get on with it. We need a plan that shows that we are going to do things differently, because the way in which we have done things in the past simply has not worked.

There is an acceleration in the costs of justice, and we have to find a way to, at least, hold the costs. We, certainly, cannot continue to expend the levels of money, and the level of human suffering, that we currently have. So, I mean, I do not think we are saying anything different than the department, but what we are saying to this Minister, is, let us have some time lines on the plan, so we have some indication of what kind of changes can come about, what it is going to cost, and how we are going to do it, etc.

Somebody has to come forward with this plan, we are suggesting by October, 1993.

Committee Motion 172-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 51
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1107

The Chair

The Chair Charles Dent

To the motion. Mr. Kakfwi.

Committee Motion 172-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 51
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1107

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I just want to speak to the motion. My view, I guess, being part of the government and part of this Legislature, is that the solutions to the many problems that we are faced with. Being Ministers of different departments, and being Members of this Legislature, is all encompassing. I believe that it is possible for us to put together a plan, from the justice point of view, I guess, on what we can do to be more responsive and proactive.

In my view, the solution is going to come more from our approach. As experienced, as well intentioned, and as moral as we are, being elected representatives of our constituents, the fact is that, any solutions that we come up with are just going to come up with other warts in other parts of the body, so to speak. We can fix up certain unsightly things that plague our society, but in the end, I think the solution, in my view, lies with us going to the communities and asking the question, "can we, with communities, work out what the approach should be?"

For instance, in earlier discussions, it is noted that corrections, the way that it is run, the way the institutions have been designed and have been functioning, are inadequate. I will not use any adjective here, but it is agreed that they are not adequate and, perhaps, culturally, very alienating for all aboriginal people, perhaps for all northern people, as well.

The fact is, these have been designed elsewhere. I think it would be, I can say foolish, but I think it would be a better investment of our time and our resources if we took the occasion to go to communities this time and say that we know it is no good, but why do you not tell us what you would design. We have so many people that are presently employed in the system, we have so much money that we spend, and are planning to spend, here is the task we have to do.

We have so many people going to jail, they serve so much time, and here is the scenario. Go to communities, and say, "what would you do to try and come up with solutions?" I think we do the same thing with the different aspects of law, regarding laws about adoption, about family violence, how sentencing should be conducted in the communities, about policing, that was a statement that I made earlier, that we want to talk to communities about how to do it.

I just want to make sure, I guess, that the Member, that is the approach that he would advocate. We have, for instance, a master plan, that was apparently initiated by some former Minister of Social Services, to take a review of the correctional services division, when it was still under Social Services. That has resulted in what they call a master plan being drafted and developed. I think, if I can get that translated, as well, that we will definitely share it with Members, and table it.

That seems, to me, just part of everything else that is coming down in line, with the approach that the Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs is suggesting, for the approach to take in community transfer initiatives.

I think the justice thing is going to be one part of that big plan. It is going to tie into what approach we take helping our young people learn parenting skills, and what we teach our children in the schools. It is going to tie in with, of course, the kind of money and support we give to communities, housing, and the kind of responsibilities we transfer to them in a whole range of other areas, the approach we take in transferring responsibility.

I wanted to add that to the record, and the motion is being considered. Thank you.

Committee Motion 172-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 51
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1107

The Chair

The Chair Charles Dent

Thank you, Mr. Minister. To the motion. Mr. Todd.

Committee Motion 172-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 51
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1107

John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes, if I may, and I do not want to get too defensive, but I want to say if I had given this to the Minister, he would have understood it.

This plan must be developed in wide consultation with the people in the communities, unless they incorporate, integrate, and create, a new approach, so we are not disagreeing. The preamble says exactly what he said. We are not disagreeing one bit. That is what we are suggesting. We need to know when, who, and how proof of the pudding is going to be in the eating, as they say. So, talk is cheap as far as I am concerned, and I do not want to be too hard, but we want some action on this thing. We are not saying anything different than what you are saying, and if you would listen to the preamble, you would have heard that.

Committee Motion 172-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 51
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1107

The Chair

The Chair Charles Dent

To the motion. Question has been called. Are we ready for the question? All those in favour, please raise your hands. All those opposed, please signify. Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 172-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 51
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1107

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have a motion on our police services. As the Minister said earlier, there have been extensive negotiations taking place with the contract that we have come to have with the R.C.M.P. However, the committee believes that programs should all undergo independent program evaluations to ensure efficiency, effectiveness, and economy. The police services, which are funded 70 percent by the territorial government, in our opinion, is no exception.

In addition, the Minister indicated that he will, no doubt, have to return to the Assembly before the end of the fiscal year to request supplemental funding for a shortfall. We must ensure that the police services are delivered in the best way possible, and accountability upheld.

Committee Motion 173-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 52
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1107

John Todd Keewatin Central

Therefore, I move that the committee recommends that a program evaluation be undertaken of the police service agreement, and funding be included in the 1993-94 main estimates, to cover all approved contract costs with no expectation of additional supplementary funding.

Committee Motion 173-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 52
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

The Chair

The Chair Charles Dent

Thank you, Mr. Todd. A motion is in order. To the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour, please raise your hands. All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 173-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 52
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

The Chair

The Chair Charles Dent

Mr. Todd.

Committee Motion 173-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 52
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you. While the committee recognizes that we are all under financial restraint, there is clearly a need to ensure that there is some policing mechanism in some of the communities that do not have the R.C.M.P. I believe, in the Minister's speech the other day, that he indicated that was going to happen, and we applauded him for it. The committee also believes that the state police should be represented by the people they serve.

Committee Motion 174-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 53
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

September 24th, 1992

Page 1108

John Todd Keewatin Central

Therefore, I move that the committee recommends the Assembly establish a goal of significantly increasing the number of aboriginal people in the police force, and the government review options with the R.C.M.P., and develop an action plan in the 1993-94 main estimates to accomplish:

1. Job redefinition to use talents available in the north; and

2. Development of career pathing for northerners.

Committee Motion 174-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 53
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

The Chair

The Chair Charles Dent

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour, please raise your hands. All those opposed? The motion carried.

---Carried

Mr. Todd.

Committee Motion 174-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 53
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

John Todd Keewatin Central

In the new O & M budget, there was some concern by the committee, about court travel costs, and while we recognize this is sensitive ground, it seems to us that we are just soaring through the roof. No one should be immune from evaluation, and taking a second look, to see if it is the most cost effective way to do things. The committee was concerned that court travel costs are high, and we were not provided with any guidelines covering court travel costs against which we could evaluate the need for the government resources.

Committee Motion 175-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 54
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

John Todd Keewatin Central

Therefore, I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Justice provide court travel guidelines in the 1993-94 main estimates.

Committee Motion 175-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 54
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

The Chair

The Chair Charles Dent

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 175-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 54
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

John Ningark Natilikmiot

I am wondering, Mr. Chairman, do we have a quorum here?

Committee Motion 175-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 54
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

The Chair

The Chair Charles Dent

Yes, Mr. Ningark, we do. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour, please raise your hand. Thank you. All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Todd.

Committee Motion 175-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 54
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

John Todd Keewatin Central

The second last resolution is the computerization of the legal registries, and it appeared that the Standing Committee on Finance felt that this should be computerized.

Committee Motion 176-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 55
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

John Todd Keewatin Central

I move that the committee recommends the Department of Justice include, in its objectives for the 1993-94 main estimates, a cost benefits study of computerizing legal registries.

Committee Motion 176-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 55
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

The Chair

The Chair Charles Dent

Thank you. Motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Gargan. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour, please raise your hands. Thank you. All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Todd.

Committee Motion 176-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 55
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

John Todd Keewatin Central

Last, but not least, measuring output and effect, it is no different than the rest of the departments. The committee wishes to know what the department will accomplish with the money put into the justice program.

Committee Motion 176-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 56
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

John Todd Keewatin Central

Therefore, I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Justice report, as a minimum, the following performance measurements in the 1993-94 main estimates:

1. Incarceration rights by the region;

2. Criminal and civil crime statistics;

3. Court costs and back logs to the courts; and

4. R.C.M.P. costs on performance, including affirmative action.

Committee Motion 176-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 56
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

The Chair

The Chair Charles Dent

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour, please raise your hands. Thank you. All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Does that complete the Standing Committee on Finance resolutions?

Committee Motion 176-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation No. 56
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1108

John Todd Keewatin Central

That does, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.