Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Personnel a question with regard to the Department of Personnel. Mr. Speaker, it has been practically a month since our superintendent of Personnel has moved from Fort Smith to Inuvik. There has been no indication of his position being advertised or filled. I'd like to ask the Minister of Personnel whether it is the intention of her department to fill the position of superintendent of personnel in Fort Smith? Thank you.

Minister Mike.

Mr. Speaker. I'll have to take the Member's question under notice. Thank you.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a written question for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Can the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment provide me with a copy of an agreement which is signed with students who received financial assistance from this government?

I am particularly interested in students who go to post-secondary educational institutions outside of the Northwest Territories.

Can the Minister also indicate as to the obligations of the students and the obligations of this government?

Item 6, written questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Item 6, written questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Premier.

Will the Premier table a report of Ministers' home travel undertaken during the period November 1991 to October 15, 1993, prior to the end of this current session and the mid-term review of Cabinet? Thank you.

Item 6, written questions. Mr. Ng.

My written question is to the Minister of Renewable Resources.

Will the Minister please provide the House with a listing of all commercial game and fish quotas in the NWT by community, species, number of animals, pounds of fish for the 1991-92, 1992-93 years and the current 1993-94 year? Can the Minister also list the amounts of the quotas utilized in the 1991-92 and 1992-93 years detailing for what purposes they were used?

Item 6, written questions. We'll take a short recess.

---SHORT RECESS

I'll call the Assembly back to order after that delicious fish break. Item 7, returns to written questions. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to a written question asked by Mr. Dent on November 22, 1993, on the Government of the Northwest Territories' houses.

1. Yes, Cabinet Ministers were offered their housing unit at the appraised value in accordance with the Housing Strategy.

2. No Cabinet Ministers have taken advantage of that opportunity.

I have a second return, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to written question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on November 22, 1993, on staff housing units placed on the market.

To date, no houses have been sold through the real estate agent in Fort Smith because no sales to the public have occurred.

In Fort Smith, the major emphasis in the implementation of the Housing Strategy has been to terminate leases of single family houses. Negotiations with the southern-based landlord have been successful and the lease on seven units has been terminated and the houses sold to employees by the landlord. Additional sales of this type are pending.

We have been able to transfer Arctic College students into vacant owned units from leased units, thereby making the leased units available for sale to the public by the landlord with eventual termination of the lease.

There is currently one vacant unit which is not suitable for student housing. It has been offered to the NWT Housing Corporation in accordance with the strategy. If the NWT Housing Corporation has no requirement, it will be sold through the local realtor.

Thank you.

Item 7, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Mr. Speaker, Return to Written Question 7-12(4), asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell to the Minister of Social Services concerning the new Social Services' organization chart.

I am pleased to provide Members of the Assembly with the new headquarters organization charts for the Department of Social Services. I have also attached a copy of both the old and revised department program structure charts. These clearly show the change to tighter management structure and reduction of senior staff positions.

As reorganization has not yet been finalized, it is not appropriate to include names at this time.

Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, replies to budget address. Mr. Koe.

Mr. Koe's Reply

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the House for the opportunity to reply to the budget address. I appreciate the work that the Minister of Finance is doing, given the financial situation of this government and that of the federal government. In the budget address, the Minister of Finance said a lot of the right things. For example, "to maximize northern business employment and training opportunities, capital priorities must be set, based on Legislative Assembly and community input. We want maximum benefits from government spending to accrue to northerners and we are committed to doing business in the Northwest Territories with northern business using northern labour."

Mr. Speaker, it is hard to argue statements like these because I firmly believe in these concepts. I also support the concept and policy of negotiating contracts. It would be nice, though, to live until the day that 100 per cent of all our construction, manufacturing, labour supply and transportation would be provided by northern companies and northern people. However, that is utopia, and I am a realist and a practical person. We have to do everything within our powers to ensure that what the Minister of Finance is saying, which is backed by Cabinet, happens. The responsibility for making these things happen rests with the Government of the Northwest Territories' bureaucracy. They are entrusted with the authority and responsibility to carry out the programs, policies and directions of government.

I am sure we all have stories of inefficiencies, mismanagement, lack of communication, et cetera, where projects do not happen the way people in the north envisage. In our system of government, we seem to accept these types of behaviour. When was the last time we saw a senior manager fired or dismissed for messing up? I am not talking about fraud or criminal behaviour; just for non-performance of duties. I believe the time has come when we, as northerners, cannot, and should not, put up with inappropriate behaviour and actions from our senior managers. They have to be accountable and responsible for their actions and the consequences.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make some comments on the capital planning process. The Standing Committee on Finance already commented that there is still a great deal of work necessary to refine the process. I fully agree with them. Communities are given a chance two, maybe three times a year, to review a five year plan. However, communities are not given an opportunity to review the plan with other communities in their region. They tend to work in isolation from their nearby communities. This should change and information should be exchanged, shared and discussed between communities, especially within a region.

The Minister of Finance stated that over 20 communities responded. At my last count, we have some 61 communities in the Northwest Territories, so the 20 communities make up about a 33 per cent success rate. We still have a great deal of work to do.

Mr. Speaker, I have spoken to the Minister of Finance and other Ministers on the issue of fairness and equity of dividing up the capital money to ensure various communities and regions get a fair share of the action. This issue concerns me, and I have stated it before in this House. Many regions, especially my region and the Beaufort/Delta area, are now economically depressed. There are no more mega-projects, so these areas rely very heavily on government initiatives. Therefore, as a representative of the region, I have to push to get an equitable share of the capital money.

In terms of the capital plan, I wish to state that the five year plan is favourable for my constituency of Inuvik. However, there is still a great deal of work and consultation required to shape the plans and get the appropriate timing of the various projects. One of the major concerns, which will have an impact on capital building projects in Inuvik, is the existing utilidor system. Currently, all government buildings use high temperature hot water heating provided by the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. There are plans, within the next two to five years, to eliminate this heating system. This means that all existing buildings and any new ones will have to have alternative heating systems, most likely oil-burning boiler systems. We have to plan for this eventuality and determine the impact upon our capital and O and M costs. Mr. Speaker, I also fear that now is the time when we should look at other energy alternatives. Perhaps now is the time to brush up on all of the old studies on using gas as an energy source for the Delta.

I stated earlier the five year capital plan is favourable for Inuvik. However, there are a couple of projects which are missing and should be included in the next version of the plan. There are requirements for a senior citizens' facility and a new correctional centre. There has been a great deal of discussion and support for these two projects from organizations in Inuvik. Their priority is to build a senior citizens' home.

In all of the capital budget, which we are expected to approve this session, it only includes money for the fiscal year of 1994-95. However, people in the communities, once they submit their five year capital plan and wish list, expect the government to commit to these projects, which are included in the plan. My suggestion is that, in the current budget book, all of the projects listed on the five year plans should be identified, by some means, to ensure residents of the North that their projects are being considered and are included in the plan.

We are all aware that what we agree on today may change tomorrow or within the five year period. Within our system, this is more likely because of the rotating Ministers and the life of each Assembly, which is four years. What has been agreed on by one person today may not necessarily be the position or priority or wish of another person tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, I would like to thank the Standing Committee on Finance for allowing me to participate in their meetings and I'd like to thank the Ministers for their support in working with, and listening to, the various organizations and citizens of Inuvik when dealing with Capital Budgets and other issues. I'm especially appreciative of the Ministers who have made visits to Inuvik and the region. Mahsi cho, qujannamiik.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Item 9, replies to budget address. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Gargan's Reply

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to reply to the budget address because I'm not on the Standing Committee on Finance and so this is the only time I would be given the opportunity to express my appreciation to the government and also to look at a list of things I hope I can accomplish before the next election.

Mr. Speaker, one of the principles that this Assembly must accept and practice, besides fair equity, is also the principle we demand as human beings that all communities deserve to have their physical, their mental, their spiritual well-being addressed. In doing so, we address as government, the whole aspect of community life and the basic infrastructure that comes with that development.

Mr. Speaker, during the last few years, things have been happening at a fairly slow pace in my constituency, especially in my community. It's not because of a lack of commitment from this government, nor is it because I haven't been persistent in fighting for the community. It's that a lot of other communities the size of mine still have to do catch-up work in those areas. I have been very quiet, in order for those constituencies to be able to get all of the infrastructure that is required, in order to address the three principles that I've referred to, their physical, mental and spiritual well-being.

I want to thank the government for the new senior citizens' home that is now in place in Hay River and also the alcohol and drug treatment centre that was just completed this summer.

Mr. Speaker, a lot of things that are happening at the community level, we do address, but a lot of things are happening other than that. When I refer to the territorial infrastructure, I refer to the highway systems -- the transportation system. One of them is the Mackenzie River. Mr. Speaker, this summer I had the opportunity to spend about a month on the river and look at different sites, including historical sites. In a lot of cases along the Mackenzie, there are a number of sites that probably could be restored. Boats could also be restored and put in a central location for people. There was a fair-sized wooden boat, named the Vancouver, at Axepoint. It's in fairly good shape, but this is one area in which I've looked around. I see that there are a lot of good historical things that might be able to be restored.

The other thing is, in Fort Providence itself, there is an old wooden ferry boat that I would like the government to look at seeing whether or not it could be restored.

The third thing that I'd like to talk about is the Mackenzie Highway. Mr. Whitford, in his Member's statement today talked about state-of-the-art, high-tech equipment for rescue. We don't have any kind of emergency response system on the Mackenzie River itself, Mr. Speaker. Most of the equipment that is in storage to address this is in the major centres. Any time there is an emergency situation on the river, we really don't have the equipment nor the manpower to address them. I would hope that, in the years to come, this government will look at the long-forecast plan so that we do have the emergency response team, as well as equipment, in place so that any time there is a situation, we would be able to respond as fast as we can and refer to places like Fort Providence, Fort Good Hope and Inuvik as areas in which those teams could be established.

The other thing, Mr. Speaker, that I also want to touch on is -- I wrote to the Government Leader, she is aware of this, but again, due to the lack of money, the commitment isn't there to do anything. Just as any highway system has campgrounds and parks, I would hope that we would be able to establish those kinds of facilities along the Mackenzie River, too. In my travels, I've also found that a lot of the sites to which people go are usually those that are accessible. You can land with comfort on the shores and be able to set up camp and have enough wood around. Anywhere that you have those kinds of sites, normally people will target them as areas to camp. What I find, too, is that you don't have to look far in the backs of those places to find garbage laying all over the place. Most of the people that go along the river will look for the most easily-accessible way of setting up camp and getting wood.

One of the things that happened this summer, Mr. Speaker, is that we have a tourist facility at Lady Evelyn Falls. I understand that Economic Development is going to be taking on tourism and parks. I'd like to ask the Minister if, during next summer's tourist season, he will target Kakisa for maintaining and getting the personnel from the community to maintain that facility at Lady Evelyn Falls.

Mr. Speaker, one area in which I have run into some problems in the communities, but which could be addressed, is with regard to the basic infrastructure in the communities. I understand that in the community of Fort Providence, there is a fire hall that's going to be built. Digaa Enterprises in Providence was very interested in taking on that project, on the understanding that they would build the project and lease it back to the government on a 20 year basis. This was not quite acceptable to this government, at this point in time. I don't know what the reasons are behind it, except to say that we do have 20 year leases with this government in other areas. Residential accommodation is one area in which this government has been willing to move.

But, with regard to fire halls, nursing stations and that, this government hasn't been very supportive. I would like to look at why I think, Mr. Speaker, it is in the best interests of this government to consider this arrangement. I think the situation right now is -- where we do have money problems -- that it is in the government's best interest to look at communities and the banks building these facilities.

As long as they see a 20 year lease, we'll be able to finance any kind of infrastructure in the communities. Mr. Speaker, it will perhaps save this government $500,000 next summer if we look at arranging 20 year leases. It also comes to the questions of ownership. Regardless of whether or not the hamlet is responsible for those buildings, the government still owns those buildings until the 20 years are up. There is nothing wrong with having an arrangement where such agreements can be reached. If, during that 20 year period, the Digaa says, we've cancelled your lease, or something to that effect, there is nothing wrong with having a clause in those agreements so that we allow those 20 year leases to happen.

The other problem I have, with regard to basic infrastructure, is that I don't know what the basic percentage is for the communities, in terms of putting in their own money for recreation facilities, for example. In 1983, an arena was built which also included a community hall, after I made the point that it is better to build two structures in one. What happened was, the community paid $250,000. They raised that much money to cover their percentage of the cost. But, if you look at the budget and the recoveries, there doesn't seem to be that much happening in other areas.

I don't know whether it is an oversight on my part, but I think a lot of communities are treated differently depending on where they are. In all fairness, I would perhaps like to see some percentage of recoveries that reflects how much the communities have put into basic infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, most of the communities have what is known as walk-in freezers. When I got re-elected two years ago, I made a motion in this House that the government support the community of Kakisa for walk- in freezers. But there was a delay because there was a policy being developed between Municipal and Community Affairs and Renewable Resources. To this day, Mr. Speaker, I don't know what the result of that policy is. There seems to have been very little done with regard to this policy. I'm asking that the government consider either establishing a walk-in freezer or the other alternative that was suggested, buying freezers for those families that are still heavily into hunting and trapping.

Another problem that I have, Mr. Speaker, is with regard to regional consultation and regional responsibilities. Fort Providence is one community where we seem to be dealing with both Fort Simpson and Fort Smith. One of the biggest problems is that, for the economic development tourism area, we deal with Fort Smith. They don't have a representative on the tourism board, nor do they have a representative when it comes to funding proposals and such. The community has been experiencing a lot of problems with the south Slave economic development board in that area.

The other thing is, we have students that go to school in Fort Simpson. I have no problem with that. I think one of the closest communities is Hay River. I understand that the students that are going to school from Fort Resolution and Hay River are doing excellently. In fact, they like that arrangement. For the purposes of the parents though, I would like to ask this government to look at the possibility -- since Fort Providence is in sort of a limbo situation with regard to responsibility and I would prefer this myself, as a parent -- of having children going to school in Hay River as opposed to Fort Simpson. I'm only saying that because Jim is not here.

Mr. Speaker, the other thing I have a problem with is the closure of Akaitcho Hall. Most of the students who went to school since the student residence was built, went here. It goes back as far as 1960, when Akaitcho Hall was first built. A lot of people from all over the north went to Akaitcho Hall for their first residence. Naturally, most of them came out fairly good. A lot of them are in fairly good positions. I think the closure of Akaitcho Hall would really limit the students in their choices.

My main point is that I don't know if the students were ever consulted about the closure of Akaitcho Hall. The students I have spoken with don't seem to think that they mattered that much. Whatever decisions are made really aren't with their consultation. Just because they aren't of age, doesn't mean we shouldn't consult with them, especially students who are moving away from home, as adults. Perhaps they aren't adults as far as the voting age goes, but they are certainly adults with regard to making decisions. Once they start being independent, going away from their parents to go to school, I think they should be given the opportunity to make choices.

I haven't heard anything said about students being consulted. I would have preferred if the choice was made by the students to say that it is time we concentrated on regional high schools as opposed to centralized high schools. I think the centralized locations do have a lot more to offer to communities. In Fort Providence, if the choice for the students was to choose between Fort Simpson and Yellowknife, I do not know what their choice would be. But, certainly, I would encourage my own children to look at Yellowknife or Hay River as the option.

Mr. Speaker, I have nothing else further to say, except I would like to make a short statement on my church in Fort Providence. The church in Fort Providence is just about completed. The last time I talked with the Father was two Sundays ago.