This is page numbers 233 - 277 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was report.

Topics

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think Members of the committee found that what Mr. Lewis is saying is far too often the case in many communities across the north. There really is a problem with elders not being accorded a place in our society that they should be. I want to make clear to Mr. Lewis that this recommendation doesn't necessarily follow from what you read and what we started with today.

In fact, everything that Mr. Koe has read today have been recommendations. In other words, we are recommending the involvement of respected elders in community-based counselling programs. We believe that is important. One of the reasons it didn't show up in a separate recommendation in this report is because our interim report number three introduced a recommendation into this House -- which did get passed by the Legislature -- which urged the government to get involved in a pilot project involving the provision of what we call para-professional counselling at the community level.

What we are talking about here, in the lead up to the recommendation, was using respected elders and other people from the community. In previous reports, we've talked about making sure that respected elders do get their place as counsellors in our society. Because it was one of the recommendations we had dealt with earlier, it didn't show up as one of the numbered recommendations in this report.

As I said, Mr. Chairman, even though a motion is not coming forward saying, for instance, that elders should be assisted to remain in their communities and the provision of local palliative care should be encouraged wherever possible, it is the feeling of our committee that all the things we raise in our report -- whether they are put forward as motions or not -- are things we are expecting the government to act upon. We are hoping we will see some action in those areas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I, too, agree with the intent and principle of the recommendation. I am trying to figure out, like Mr. Lewis, the effectiveness of a 1-800 number for the elders. I happen to know some people who work as volunteers on the help line. They are very seldom called. Yet, there was a suicide committed in Hall Beach not too long ago. Why did that person not call?

My point here, Mr. Chairman, is that if the recommendation goes through, there will have to be a clear, specific, step-by-step method of instruction -- maybe a pamphlet will have to be issued to the elders -- of calling the number. And, if the 1-800 number is set up in Yellowknife as usual, and a unilingual Inuktitut elder calls from Grise Fiord or Sanikiluaq, the government contact person will not be able to speak all eight languages. It is not practical. They will probably have to use English as the working language and maybe Slavey, Gwich'in or Inuktitut. But somebody will not be able to communicate if the person answering is unilingual.

I would like the chairman of the standing committee to explain what is planned here. The government should not come up with a 1-800 number and a formal procedure to use it, if it doesn't work for the majority of elders. My question about the motion is, what are the plans to make the 1-800 number practical and workable so the elders who need this kind of assistance can have confidence in calling it?

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, I'm going to give the chairman of the special committee a little time to think about what you are asking. It is now 5:30 pm and the committee stands recessed until 7:00 pm. We'll get back to you, Mr. Arvaluk, when we return.

---DINNER RECESS

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Now, this committee will come to order. Before we had a break for supper, there was a question on the floor. Mr. Arvaluk. The chairman of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services, Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe Mr. Arvaluk's question had to do with how we would deal with language problems on a 1-800 number. The Official Languages Act requires that the government provides service in any official language where there is sufficient demand. So if there was demand for the languages then that would have to be provided. The government may choose to, for instance, set this up on a regional basis so that it could be done easily in languages of the regions. We haven't said exactly how the system should be set up, but we are aware that there's a seniors society which is trying to set up on a regional basis. So, hopefully, there will be a group of elders in every region which we are hoping would then be called on by the government to provide advice. They could certainly help the government with how to set this sort of program up.

Really, Mr. Chairman, this recommendation comes from hearing from elders all across the north. Not only did they not know where to get help, but when they went to ask somebody about how to deal with a problem, even that person often couldn't find out. For instance, if they had a home care worker coming in and they wanted to get some assistance on finding out how to take advantage of the fuel subsidy, that information wasn't readily available even to the home care worker to pass on to the elder.

We're hoping, with this kind of system set up, that people will be able to take advantage of one-stop shopping when it comes to advice on where seniors should go for assistance in the system. That's really the goal. In terms of the languages, that's something that will have to be dealt with, pursuant to the Official Languages Act, which does require services to be provided in all the official languages, where demand is sufficient.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

To the motion, Mr. Chairman. I support the principle, by the way. I just want to know how it is going to work. Did the committee consult with the Languages Commission to be consist with the Legislative Assembly's programs and projects?

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, we did not consult specifically with the languages commissioner. As I said, the requirements of the legislation are pretty clear and there is no choice involved. If there is sufficient demand, services must be provided in all of the official languages, or any of the official languages.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Allooloo.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like Mr. Arvaluk, I hear what the chairman of the committee is saying. I support the concept but I question whether this would be the best method to help the elders. Mr. Chairman, we would have all the official languages, but I am wondering how many times the services would be used. We would have a lot of people sitting there doing nothing for periods of time until an elderly person wants help. I wonder, isn't there a better way, instead of establishing a 1-800 number in the Northwest Territories? Isn't there a better way of dealing with it in the regional bases? Normally, regional people speak the same languages. For example, the Baffin, Keewatin, Deh Cho, Inuvik -- Inuvik might have a couple of languages. Isn't there a better way, rather than having a central location for elders to get information? If it's a central location, sometimes the people who are appointed into those positions don't have the sensitivity of certain regions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is no doubt. I think I mentioned in my answer to Mr. Arvaluk that we are aware of an elders' group which is trying to set up operations on a regional basis in the Northwest Territories. They could perhaps be called upon to assist with this sort of program. It could certainly be considered on a regional basis. This recommendation is not saying it's limited to only one location. We are saying that there should be at least that one. If there are more, that's fine. Part of the problem we found was not just with elders not being able to get the information, but even people who were helping to care for them often couldn't find out specific information about programs which were designed to assist elders.

We're saying that we need to have one person, at least one person, who can answer all of the questions that might come up. For instance, when we were in three or four of the regions, we ran into people who were unable to find out through the Social Service office how to get in touch with somebody to deal with problems they were having with Canada Pension. Even the social workers in the community didn't have all the answers. We want to make sure that there is a number that an elder can call to talk to a social service worker and the social service worker has a source for information. We found that too often the information just wasn't available to anybody in the community, let alone to the elder. I think that it's important that we recognize that. That's what we're hoping will be addressed with this. I think that you'll find that we would welcome having things set up on a more regional basis.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Allooloo. To the motion.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Chairman. I agree with the principle, Mr. Chairman. I think there's a need for that kind of service provided for elders because they don't always have the necessary information about services that the government provides. I think, Mr. Chairman, there is a better way that could be found, if we asked the people in the regions how to address this problem. If we do it this way, as Mr. Dent says, we would have at least one person who is able to answer all the questions that elders might have. But, recognizing that elders do speak different languages, I don't think one person could do it. I don't think there is anybody in the Northwest Territories who is able to speak all the Dene languages and Inuktitut languages, Inuvialuit and Innuinaqtun. One person cannot do it. I think what we are doing here by making the recommendation to the government is establishing an ombudsperson for elders. Does it have to be strictly limited to elders? Could it be for other people as well? Thank you.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The recommendation arises out of, again, what the committee's activities are. The committee's activities were to look at health and social services and, in examining the concerns of elders -- which was one of the groups that we specifically looked at -- we clearly heard, across the Northwest Territories, that many elders found the system inaccessible and cumbersome. I recognize the concern that some people may not be able to talk all of the languages. I don't think, as Mr. Allooloo has said, that anybody can speak all eight languages. We felt that this was one way of making sure that we could communicate to elders and let them know that this service was available. The service would obviously have to be set up so that there was somebody closely available that could interpret, if necessary, for the person who was providing the advice. I think that sort of ability is possible and I think it is one way to get things started. If we don't deal with the problem in some direct fashion, the problem isn't going to go away. Too often we heard that elders don't know about what programs are available for them. The people who are helping them, the people who provide service to them, often don't know about the programs. We need to have someone in government who can explain government programs -- which are the same across the Northwest Territories -- to people who are out in the field. That means more than just the elders, that means the people who are

providing the services. I do think the system could be set up so that there was an interpreter available to deal with questions and have, perhaps, one person start with the service. My concern is that if we try and say that the government has to develop a big bureaucracy at this point in time, we are liable to get into the argument that there isn't enough money to start it right now and that would be the excuse for it never to appear. I think the committee was trying to present as economic a solution as possible and see how it works. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as a Member of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services, the report is preliminary. It is the beginning of what people want us to do as a public government. Once the report has been approved by all 24 Members -- hopefully, we will have the support of 24 Members -- and when implementation comes to force, perhaps a broader scope of details can be worked out. Perhaps we can try and utilize what people want, to make the program more efficient, to make it more accessible to people who need the programs and services. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed. Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Members. We are on recommendation number 19. Elder abuse will not be stopped until attitudes in society are changed. Public awareness of appropriate laws and policies must be increased. At the same time, elders must be informed of the ways in which they can receive support.