Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, with regard to the tourism training aspect of the cutbacks from the federal government, we have been expressing our displeasure in this regard. They have told us that some of it has gone to pathways, and of course, this is a community administered program, so some of these things may be addressed through pathways. As far as being able to take up the stack of all of the cutbacks which the federal government is passing down to us or down to the people of the Northwest Territories, we are unable to do that, Mr. Chairman. I have to be quite frank about this.

Mr. Chairman, what we have to do is make better use of our dollars and encourage the federal government to allow us to make better use of their dollars that they have available. This is one of do things we are working on right now. Whereas, and I know I have said this before, and I have been laughed at for it, our turn around time is relatively fast when you compare the turn around time for contribution agreements from the federal government, whether it is CAEDS or some other program. We are trying to work with the federal government to say if we bring these things together at the same time, then people can get on with businesses a lot faster. We are not able to replace the dollars which the federal government is cutting back, but we certainly are trying to make better use of the dollars we have and the ones that they have.

The other area is there is going to be a closure of some federal offices in the latest round of cutbacks. I have discussed with Mr. Siddon's office whether or not the Government of the Northwest Territories could deliver those programs on behalf of the federal government. I have not heard back on that one, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Are there any general comments? Mr. Koe.

Your departmental mandate is to promote and assist in the development of private publicly sponsored business enterprises that will create jobs and income for northern residents. The mandates and roles of other departments have changed, Education has some responsibility for jobs, and some of the programs which previously existed here in this department are moved or have moved. The concern is that there is still a need to develop our economy, create some wealth which is going to stay north, develop our northern businesses and ensure that our government's programs and services are utilized, and we use as much northern content and northern business as possible. Yet, every time we travel and talk with people we are always getting examples of things not going according to Hoyle, things are not working as well as we think. As mentioned earlier in the SCOF report, part of it is the seemingly lack of coordination or cooperation between government departments, joint consultation on projects and major initiatives. I would see this department as taking a major lead in many of these initiatives. Can the Minister briefly advise as to some of the initiatives which the department is taking in terms of developing our economy?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Member is correct about the lack of coordination in government for spending our own money. Many times this department finds out after the fact that a business or a partnership was trying to get some government contracts, and we get told after the fact of the difficulties that they encountered. I think it is getting better. However, there are times when we can certainly act as an advisor to a person on how to do business with the government. I would stress this department is trying to make sure that where we spend money in the Northwest Territories as a government, that we ensure those departments do spend it in the north. There are all kinds of frustrating examples, as Mr. Koe has pointed out. We are endeavouring to address this. Mr. Bailey sits on the BIP committee, the EDA committee and he is playing an active role in any of the new things which the government is doing such as the committee of deputies who are going to review the way in which the Department of Renewable Resources fights forest fires. By having us around, we hope that we are able to

influence those things and point out just how we should be looking at government spending of money and how it can influence our economy. Having a position at the table is doing us some good.

What are we doing in other areas? I have talked at length about some of the initiatives, whether it be forestry, fisheries, mining or looking at a tannery in the Delta. We are keenly interested in any of those things. I must say, Mr. Chairman, and I have said before in this House, and that is when you are looking at a business and you want to get someone going in a business or you want to start something, you want to be realistic about it also. Is it going to stand the test of time? They say that if a business has been around five years chances are it is going to survive. Most businesses fail in the first year or two or possibly three. In as much as we are going to be there assisting people and telling people we would like to help them, at the same time, we only want to do that in a realistic manner so that we know they are let with something meaningful and something which they are not going to come back to us several years later and say "I have lost all of that money and I need some more."

There are two ways to do this. One is to go in realistically, give them the facts so that they know what they are getting into, to look at the business plan and inform them this will work if they do certain particular things. The second thing is to follow-up with them on a regular basis so that we can help them along the way. Sometimes we have to hold the hands of these people for a considerable time.

The other thing is to make all of the government departments aware of the fact that we have formed a new business, we have assisted them, and that it is together and it is operating, and try to encourage those government departments to use this business. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

One thing which seems to be standing the test of time is the department's reputation, especially within the business community. Wherever we go we always hear not overly positive comments about the department and how they do business, and how they provide help. I am glad to see there has been changes made in your senior management. I would give Mr. Bailey a lot of support and encouragement to continue to follow the track which he has taken on. At least he is getting out there and meeting the people in the smaller and larger communities. He is getting out and seeing what is happening and meeting with staff and the business community. I think this is a key component. There is a need for a major turn around. There is also a great deal of competition. Most of the aboriginal groups and some of the federal ones, the ones who are still in existence, also have grants, contributions and loan funds. Not only do we need coordination and continuing consultation with other government departments, but also with other federal government departments and also the aboriginal groups. As you mentioned in your budget speech, they are a major force and a major economic player, especially with the settlement of land claims. They now have land, money and wealth, and are ready and willing to do business. I want to provide this bit of advice. We have to expand our consultation networks. It is an ongoing task to keep current and up-to-date with all of the players in the economy.

Mr. Koe's advice is taken, Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under the Department of Economic Development there are two secondments from the department. There had been two others over the past three or four years. Is the government getting any direct benefit from the secondments? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I think both secondments end this year. Both parties that they are seconded to have been advised that we will not be extending those secondments, certainly not for periods of years. I think there is a certain element of unfairness which is expressed to us by many people who say "Why did this company or this group get the assistance of a government-paid person to be at their total disposal, and we did not?" That is a problem we are trying to address. As for do we get any benefit out of it, other than the fact that hopefully those people have worked for successful organizations, there is no direct benefit to us, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The question I have is under the definitive objectives, under policy activity, policy and planning. There is to provide on-the-job training for two trainees, and to place one trainee in an economic development officer position. Does this mean there are two trainees under policy and planning? Will the department have any more trainees? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, they can be in the communities or they can be in school. In this case, this is a new training position in Coppermine. This position was requested by the community.

In regard to the last question, I do not want to mislead the committee. With regard to those two secondments, we are thinking of moving one of those seconded people or moving the position to the Kitikmeot to address the issue of the mining industry in that particular region and how that region can get the best bang for its dollar out of the Izok Lake development, the Port development and the whole issue up there with Transportation. I do not want to say I am cancelling them out totally, but I would consider moving one into the Kitikmeot. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would take it that that would be, because there are only two secondments at the present time, there is one for...(inaudible)... and one for Cambridge Bay settlement council.

The second question I had about the trainees, did not get answered. I was wondering it the department is expecting to create any more trainee positions? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, we are creating two this year. If they are successful then we will look at it again next year. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

One final question, Mr. Chairman. Under business development, one of the objectives is to develop arts and crafts marketing plans for the United States market. I would like to find out how that is going and if there is any involvement by any arts and crafts business in the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.