Mr. Speaker, this week we have heard about the passing away of Mr. Larry Desmeules who represented the Metis of Alberta during the multilateral talks that lead up to the Charlottetown Accord. Many of us at the political and working level had the opportunity to work with Mr. Desmeules over the months that it took to conclude the Charlottetown Accord. All of us want to extend our sympathy to his wife and his children and friends who are, I am sure, grieving the loss.

Mr. Desmeules made an important contribution to the process and advancing the recognition of Metis rights during this national process. He also took some personal interest in advancing the situation of the Metis in the Northwest Territories, even though they were not direct constituents of his. As recently as December he came to Yellowknife specifically to support Mr. Gary Bohnet in his efforts to obtain support from our government for extending the federal trilateral self-government process to the north. It is general, unselfish actions like this as well as his other public and personal accomplishments, which will give us fond memories of Mr. Desmeules. The government will send a representative to the funeral which will take place in Edmonton tomorrow morning. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 66-12(3), which is staff housing strategy responses. Thank you.

The committee will now come to order. When we left off yesterday at 6:00, the committee was reviewing the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. We are on page 11-11. Is it the committee's wish that we continue with MACA? Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Is the Minister of MACA prepared to take the witness chair?

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Can the Sergeant-at-Arms escort the witnesses to the witness table? Mr. Minister, for the record can you please introduce your witnesses.

Department of Municipal and Community Affairs

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Are there any general comments? Is it agreed we go into detail?

Mr. Zoe, general comments.

General Comments

Mahsi. Mr. Chairman, the Standing Committee on Finance commended the efforts of Municipal and Community Affairs in dealing with their particular department. I agree they have been doing good work, but there is always room for

improvement. I was disappointed when I reviewed the list of municipalities and how some municipalities are in a deficit, and how they the department has been monitoring those particular municipalities. The report indicated the department needs to improve in this area. The department needs to put a monitoring system in place so that when municipalities are starting to get into trouble, the department should be aware of the problem and able to flag the municipality. They should be able to inform the municipality that they are getting into some serious problems. The department needs to put a system in place to improve the monitoring so that these type of things could be addressed at the beginning instead of waiting until the year end to find out that certain municipalities are having problems.

Mr. Chairman, I would also like to emphasize the need for the department to increase their involvement, particularly at the community level. They need to do more training, particularly for councils and their staff. With regard to staff training, I know the department had a fairly good program which they used to offer. I think they still offer this program to train SAOs. One of the objectives of this department is that they were trying to create a more northern type of training program for SAOs. I wanted to get assurance from the department that this kind of training will not be watered down to the existing training that they are giving the current SAOs. I believe the one which was administered by the department was through McMaster University, the MACTO program. This was, in my view, a very good program. If the department is going to create a new program then I do not think they should water it down so that the program is not recognized across the country. If my recollection is correct, Mr. Chairman, Alberta has a program similar to MACTO which is offered in Ontario. The Alberta program is recognized across the country. It is one of the leading jurisdictions for administrators. I wanted to suggest to the department that whatever we do, I hope it is not watered down. The MACTO program was also recognized across the country. It was the leading program and it still is. Alberta is also coming on stream and their program is also being recognized across the country. I agree our programs should reflect the northern flavour but it should not be watered down so that it is not recognized across the country.

Mr. Chairman, with regard to training for councillors, the department has to do a bit more work in this area. I know they have been working hard, but there is always room for improvement. The handbook which they are working on would enhance the knowledge of new councillor members coming in. The workshops for councillors is a requirement. Some people who get into municipal politics do not know exactly what they are getting themselves in to. Training in this area is a requirement. I would encourage the department to do more work in this area of training.

Mr. Chairman, with regard to planning for capital projects, I know this whole area has to be improved. Although MACA is one of the better departments within the government to consult with the various communities across the territories, there is room for improvement here also. The planning has changed. It is not coordinated through the Government Leader's office. Planning for capital projects pertaining to MACA, I think they have been doing a good job but the staff need to get out there and consult with individual municipalities. It is getting to the point where, although we are letting the municipalities or communities priorize their own projects, it is hard if you do not know, for instance, what you build first or what type of capital you receive first. For instance, do you build the fire hall before you purchase a fire truck? Which one comes first in terms of priority? They have to know how to plan. I do not think that component, at the community level, is there. I think they need guidance from this department, because they have been fairly good at priorizing various projects as to which requirement the various communities need. For instance, if they have a spare garage, it is feasible to order a fire truck before the fire hall is built. The norm is that you build a fire hall first, then you get the truck, because you can always utilize your water truck as an emergency fire truck.

The department still has to do much work in assisting the communities in their capital planning. Mr. Chairman, as I indicated, this department, in my view, has succeeded very well. Even our Standing Committee on Finance commented that they were doing a decent job and I agree, nevertheless there is always room for improvement. Those are the areas that I wanted to touch on. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Minister, do you have a response?

Thank you, Mr. Allooloo. Are there any general comments? Mr. Ningark.