Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are talking about gravel quarries.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In terms of unorganized communities, I would like to change the name to unincorporated communities. We are addressing the problem. The department is working on a policy to deal with capital needs of these communities, as well as the O and M needs of these communities. Also, in terms of emergency needs of the community, such as the basic needs of water and sewer facilities, I will be bringing forward, in the capital plan, strategies to deal with those items, which will be dealt with next fall for 1993-94. The department is working very hard on the policy. It has been fast-tracked so we could address the problems of unincorporated communities and look after communities such as Nahanni Butte. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The preventative maintenance is of essential importance in any given appropriation. In most of the municipalities which I represent, Gjoa Haven, Pelly Bay and Taloyoak, the maintenance parking garages they have are not big enough to handle the fleet of equipment. When I say equipment, I am talking about trucks and heavy duty equipment. If the municipality ran their preventative maintenance program, Mr. Chairman, the consequences could be substantial in terms of costs to this government and to the municipal government. Given that, what is the department doing to ensure this does not happen and that municipalities have adequate garages to handle their equipment which are essential to the municipal services? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department provides a maintenance garage where the equipment can be serviced and maintained by the municipalities. In some cases we have unfunded equipment. This is where a community gets the equipment on their own and it is not funded by our department. We also provide parking garages for the hamlets. The purpose of the parking garage is to park the funded equipment so that they can be sufficiently housed. We try to provide adequate maintenance garages for the funded equipment and also parking garages. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have a garage and a parking garage in my home community of Pelly Bay. According to me, the garage is not big enough to house its fleet of equipment. Mr. Chairman, it should either be replaced or enlarged. Is the Minister aware of the problem which is being addressed in Pelly Bay?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not know of the particular problem which the Member is outlining. I will look into it. We can perhaps look after it through the area of the capital planning process, this is where the superintendent and the staff go into the community and talk about the capital planning process. Thank you.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a general comment, but it is not directly related to the topic. In the past five years the local government has been working with the territorial government. I am pleased about this. The local governments are much happier since the five year capital plan has been in place. The communities have been considering obtaining more responsibilities from the territorial government. For example, if the water pipes freeze, DPW does not normally pay for this, it is paid for under the hamlet. Often the hamlet is short of funding, whereas DPW has sufficient funding. For this reason, the hamlet is under a great deal of strain. Their funding for the year is insufficient. Under the community transfers I feel that it has to be priorized. The hamlet office is eager to manage. We need to priorize the transfers to the communities because the economy is down. The hamlet owes money. When the hamlets are requesting certain things, this must be considered and priorized. The hamlets have been in existence for a number of years and they are capable of running their own government within their community. I had wanted to express this, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Member for his concerns as they are very valid. Regarding the frozen pipes and the reservoir, DPW was looking after this, we were able to help the community with funding.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some general comments I want to make on MACA. They have to do with your departmental mandate, goals and definitive

objectives. I have always had a concern with this department because I see this department as the territorial government department that deals with going into the communities, such as some of the constituencies that I represent, which are unincorporated, to attempt to help them get organized in one form or another. There is nothing in your goals or definitive objectives to deal with that. Perhaps that is what the problem is in some of my small communities.

How long has this territorial government been in existence? Why have these communities not been helped in getting themselves organized? The only group that helped them was the Dene Nation when they sent in some community development workers to help these communities get organized. Presently, the Deh Cho tribal council is going into these communities to help them organize. These are funds that the tribal councils get on their own because of their treaty organizations. The job of this department is to help these communities do exactly what the tribal councils are trying to do. I am very puzzled. I have been trying to figure out this department since my election. How long has this department been in existence, and why is this government not helping these communities?

I applaud the efforts of the Deh Cho tribal council because they have identified the problem in these communities and they are going in helping these communities get organized, with no funding from your department at all. This is your job, according to these definitive objectives and goals. I would like to see this department, in one way or another, help some of these communities get on their feet. The only items I see in your goals, mandates and definitive objectives are tools for the communities. I think you have to go deeper than that into real community development and get the ideas from the communities on how things should run. The bands and the tribal council are going back into our own Dene history to see how we conducted ourselves in the past to try to build on that. That is a true consensus of government at the community level, where you go back to your roots and build on that.

There seems to be no cooperation between what the bands, tribal councils and the government are trying to do. If we could coordinate these efforts, I think you will see some of these communities come a long way. Right now there is no cooperation. I do not see any plans at all to try to help the communities in the way in which I have been trying to explain. I would like to suggest this department meet with the Deh Cho tribal council to see what they are doing, and meet with these community representatives, through the tribal council, to discover the goals they are trying to achieve in trying to get these governments more organized. This would be helpful. I am talking about the philosophy of this department. I do not see how the philosophy here, in its present form, will help some of these smaller communities unless there is coordination and cooperation with the Deh Cho tribal council and these smaller communities. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are trying to address the issue of helping communities. We are developing a policy, which would tell this government, regardless of what kind of communities they are, to assist them in O and M and also in capital needs, whether they are bands, unincorporated or incorporated. In terms of community transfer authorities from the government, coordinated by the Minister of the aboriginal rights section of our government, any more authorities given to the community is coordinated through that office. We are there to assist the communities if we are needed. We are also here to help Mr. Kakfwi's ministry if he requires help. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You mentioned community transfer. Even before we talk about community transfer in the smaller communities, there is a need for development and training. This is the area I am concentrating on right now. There is a need for community development type of training and awareness at this community level, to bring these communities up to a level where they might start talking about community transfer. Many smaller communities are in no position at all to even start considering community transfers at this point. This department, MACA, should help these communities try to get into awareness and community development to enable them to start talking about community transfers. Thank you.