Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ms. Mike.

Mr. Speaker, family violence is a serious problem which affects people in all our communities. The cooperation of all levels of government, community organizations and individuals is necessary if people and communities are to be given the support they need to heal themselves. It is particularly important for people who work at the local level to have strategies in place to help those in abusive situations, and to help break the cycle of violence.

I am pleased to say that a number of government departments cooperated in the organization and funding for a two day training session for people who work in the area of family violence prevention in the Keewatin region. The session began Wednesday and ends today. Approximately 50 people representing each Keewatin community are attending the workshop which is being held in Rankin Inlet. The training session will help participants identify the types of family violence most prevalent in their communities and overcome some of the barriers to dealing with these problems as a community-based team. The participants include representatives of the RCMP, schools, community health centres and various projects funded by the Department of Social Services. The NWT family services developed and is delivering the workshop.

The workshop was organized by the Department of Social Services, the Department of Health and the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs. It is being cost-shared by the RCMP, Social Services and Education, Culture and Employment Programs.

Mr. Speaker, family violence is an important issue that can only be resolved if everyone works together. The workshop being held in Rankin Inlet is an excellent example of this kind of cooperation. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Mike. Item 2, Ministers' statements. I would like to recognize in the gallery a former colleague, Mr. Nick Sibbeston, former Premier of the Northwest Territories.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A couple of days ago Mr. Pudluk made some startling statements and Mr. Whitford had some very interesting legitimate questions about what the government will do about PanArctic's plan for ocean dumping of scrap metals in Arctic waters.

Mr. Speaker, I have spent a great deal of my life in the north Baffin where PanArctic was most active in their oil and gas exploration. Burning and burying of garbage and scrap metal was a common practice by PanArctic and was never acceptable to the people of the area but was reluctantly tolerated. Now they want to dump scrap metal in one of the most sensitive ocean ecosystems of the world, according to the scientific community. As the Minister of Renewable Resources stated yesterday, if PanArctic is allowed to dump in the ocean then there is nothing stopping PanArctic and other companies from doing it again and again, for they would have already set a precedent in obtaining ocean dumping permits.

In today's world our strong concern for the environment and the need to protect and preserve the most sensitive areas means we can no longer tolerate senseless practices of waste burying and ocean dumping. Mr. Speaker, I want to state today, where are the animal rights groups when we need them?

Hear, hear

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, PanArctic sends their fully loaded ships to the high Arctic and they return south empty. Why can they not take the garbage and scrap metal back for recycling and incinerating? This should be a simple axiom.

Lastly, Mr. Speaker, although Inuit have never fully accepted it, the federal government has taken it upon themselves to be guardians of the high Arctic on our behalf and trust. How are they then allowing this kind of irresponsible action in the eyes of the world? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Speaker, I am concerned the government seems to take the real and potential value of the Science Institute of the Northwest Territories too lightly. A new proposal by the Minister of Education is that it should be part of his very large department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, under the college system. On the surface it seems like a modification of the previous government's position that proposed the institute be split into two parts. What it does though, Mr. Speaker, is to even further reduce the ability of the institute to fulfil its mandate under the act which created that institute.

I know everyone is not convinced we need a science institute. I feel very strongly about it though, Mr. Speaker, and believe it should play a major role in the years that lie ahead. If you look at the development of each of our provinces you would be convinced that economic progress depended on the research and development that was undertaken in those jurisdictions. I am thinking of the development of wheat in Saskatchewan, the forestry in British Columbia, the fishery in Atlantic Canada and technology in Ontario and other parts of the country.

Our modern world in large measure depends on scientific advancement. The manner in which the science institute is being pulled and pushed suggests to me that our government does not share that view. It makes me very pessimistic in the face of the challenges we will face in the decades ahead. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am becoming increasingly annoyed with the decisions made in the Department of Health. During the Deh Cho Tribal Council meeting in Hay River on September 9 through 11, a motion was passed that program funds and PYs for community health representatives should be administered by the band councils. Mr. Speaker, this was done in the belief that Ms. Cournoyea's government is committed to community transfer. In fact, her implementation plan for reshaping northern governments talks about, "community ownership of programs and services which are controlled by local people." Six months later her Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs stood in this House on September 15 and stated that, "It has been my view from the beginning that aboriginal people have the inherent right to govern themselves. That includes everything which the government has the capacity to govern, legislate on and, perhaps, more. That has been my approach."

That was not the approach taken by the Department of Health when they were asked to consider the community transfer of the community health representative position. Mr. Speaker, the department's response to Chief Landry of Fort Providence was patronizing and it slams the door on any departmental consideration for this initiative. It states that because community health representatives perform an important health education function they must be part of a team and that this can only be accomplished if the program is administered within the Mackenzie regional health services. This means within the Department of Health, Mr. Speaker, within Yellowknife.

How dare those departmental officials make these comments to a Dene chief. How dare they assume that if CHRs report to the band they will be less effective as health educators or a less important component of a health team. Mr. Speaker, Dene look after their community health needs including health promotion and education. For hundreds of years before there was a Department of Health or a centre square tower, or even a Government of Canada, it is time that ....

Mr. Gargan, your allotted time has lapsed.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Speaker, it is time the senior people in the Department of Health recognize that we have never given up that right. They have to start to honour the commitment this Cabinet has been making in this House. It is time to consider transferring health resources to community control now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my time as an MLA, Members of this Assembly have always enjoyed and valued a close working relationship with the Science Institute of the Northwest Territories. After all, the Science Institute reports to this Assembly and, in effect, is a servant of this Assembly. It is incorporated in our own legislation.

Most of the years I have been an MLA the Science Institute met annually with MLAs, reported to us on their work and formally or informally accepted MLA's advice on research and other priorities, although this has not happened recently. I recall the work done in the past by the Science Institute in areas such as moose hide tanning techniques, uranium mine tailings clean up and the slow-poke reactor where this Assembly requested help from the Science Institute on specific issues of concern.

The Science Institute has had amongst its members distinguished Canadians and eminent scientists. It has attracted significant federal funding from the national research council and other third party funding sources.

Mr. Speaker, this government earlier announced the Science Institute would be decentralized to Inuvik and the Baffin. Recently, the new Minister of Education announced, at a public meeting of the Arctic College board of governors, his view that the Science Institute should, perhaps, be incorporated with Arctic College. Does this represent a change of government policy? Has it been decided in Cabinet? Have the views of the Science Institute or MLAs to which the Science Institute reports been sought? These are questions which must be answered.

Mr. Speaker, this is our research and development capacity. It is critical to our future. Changes must be carefully and thoughtfully planned. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be directed to the Government Leader. The honourable Members are aware that the honourable Mr. Don Mazankowski delivered an economic fiscal statement in the House of Commons on December 2, 1992. The federal government announced it will be reducing a number of expenditures to commence at the beginning of the 1993-94 fiscal year. The impact of those reductions to programs and services in the north is expected to be severe. Given the very serious impact that these expenditure reductions are likely to have on important NWT programs and services, and recognizing that the Prime Minister has cancelled his previously scheduled meetings with her, can the Premier tell the House what steps she will be taking to address these damaging cutbacks?

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, we know we have a window of opportunity before there is another statement made by the Finance Minister. What we are doing, and began working on yesterday, is preparing a series of missiles to be sent to the Prime Minister expressing our concerns on a number of issues, including the cutbacks on, for example, the friendship centres and the aboriginal language programming. We realize it is very serious. We know the communications in these hinterlands are very important. We will be sending these communiques to them just in case the meeting does not happen before the Finance Minister has to make a statement. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I spoke earlier today about the changes which seem to be suggested by various announcements by Ministers with respect to the Science Institute. I would like to ask the Government Leader the possibility of combining the Science Institute with Arctic College, or incorporating it into the operations of Arctic College. It seems to be a new direction for the government from what was previously announced, I believe by the Minister of Finance, the notion of decentralizing the Science Institute to the east and west. Is this new idea government policy a result of a Cabinet decision, or is this speculating and musing on the part of the Minister of Education, alone? Thank you.

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know if we could say it is policy, but I can say it is not musing. I want to assure the honourable Member that this is not integrating. There is no intention of downgrading the valued work of the Science Institute, but to attach it to some academic body so it can work in collaboration with this academic body and they can lend each other the resources and support that is required. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to hear those assurances from the Government Leader. Could I ask the Government Leader, since this is not a final decision and is not yet government policy, will the views of the Science Institute and Members of this Assembly be sought and considered before the government does finally make a decision on the future of this very important institution? Thank you.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, like I said, this is not a change in direction of decentralization, it is just making a decision on what is the best way to decentralize the Science Institute. How can the operation of government be placed in such a way that a coordinated effort can realize maximum benefits from any organization? Certainly, we are willing to consult if Members feel we are taking something away or want input into how that move takes place. Mr. Speaker, I believe

the responsibility of research is very important. As much as possible, in how we are trying to organize our activities, we can find mixes that will allow us to make the best gains from the resources we are expending in those various areas. This is what we are attempting to do. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, these explanations are helpful and I want to make it clear that I may well conclude there may be merit in the proposed suggestion that came from the Minister of Education. Rather than have it floated at an Arctic College board of governor's public meeting, which is the first occasion Members of this Assembly might have heard this idea, I wonder if the Government Leader would agree that once a plan has been worked out, hopefully in consultation with the Science Institute board itself, something could be presented by way of a statement or an announcement to this Assembly so Members can be given notice of how this is going to work and perhaps have an opportunity to discuss this matter in this House. Thank you.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure the Minister responsible will be pleased to circulate the plan and consult with Members who are interested in how this is going to evolve. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I have not received a response from the federal government yet, not from DFO or from Environment Canada. The company is required to have a permit in order to dump scrap metal into the ocean. They also require a blasting permit in order to blast the ice to make a hole to enable them to dump the scrap metal. They require two permits. To my knowledge, the federal government has not been very concerned about this. They say there is minimal impact if the scrap metal is dumped. DFO seems to be open to giving the company a permit to allow them to blast. In those two areas I am very concerned. I have given the federal government three options in order to look after this problem. Either they find a way to dispose of this, the same way that DND is doing to old DEW Line sites, or they take the material to land fill sites in a northern community or take it back down south where it came from. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since Lougheed Island is on territorial land, any permit required would have to come from the federal government. We only give permits on Commissioner's land. This includes about two per cent of the Northwest Territories.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. Mr. Speaker, the Minister responded to one of my questions about the establishment of a territorial park at Campbell Lake near Inuvik. In his response on March 5, the Minister stated that regional officials are developing a work plan for the park. That plan will be reviewed and agreed to by the parks committee and recommended for approval by the Minister. Once approved, the plan will be implemented. He also mentioned the make up of the park management committee. My question to the Minister is, what authority does the park management committee have?

Mr. Pollard.

I guess they would not have authority, but they would certainly have a lot of pull with me, Mr. Speaker. If they were not happy, then I would not be happy.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Would the park management committee have any decision-making responsibilities? Can they make decisions on allocations of budgets?

Mr. Pollard.

No, Mr. Speaker, they would not be able to make decisions, but they would certainly be able to provide advice. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope that while regional officials are developing a work plan, that members of the Gwich'in and other individuals from Inuvik are involved in the working of the development of this plan. From what I understand, these officials are going to develop a plan and give it to the committee. Who is involved in the development of the plan initially?

Mr. Pollard.

The regional staff, Mr. Speaker, would be involved and they would have some support from people in Yellowknife. I am sure they are going to say to the committee, "Here are some of the ideas that we have been kicking around, here are some of the things that have worked in other parks in the Northwest Territories and here are some of the things that have not worked. Can we come to some arrangement on how you would like to see this park built and operated?" Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Will members of local groups and organizations be involved in the initial development of the plan?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, I will undertake to advise the region that they should consult with the people who are going to be on that advisory board, prior to bringing the plan forward to them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Finance. The Minister of Finance should be aware of Bill C-113, which is presently going through the various stages of passage in the House of Commons. The bill would radically alter many aspects of the unemployment insurance plan. My honourable colleague for Thebacha asked the Premier about this matter on February 17, 1993, and was told that the Department of Finance was evaluating the effect of the new unemployment insurance plan. Mr. Speaker, my concern is for the seasonal workers such as surveyors, fire fighters, fishermen, et cetera. Can the Minister of Finance tell the House whether his department has completed its analysis of the impact that this federal legislation will have on northern workers?

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, Members will recall the federal Minister came under intense pressure in the House of Commons over this particular bill and there have recently been more changes made. Yes, we looked at it the first time. There are suggested changes to that bill and we will look at it again and then come back with a report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take the question as notice.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Government Leader. To my understanding the high Arctic islands used to belong to Britain in the 1800s. My question to the Government Leader is, who owns the Arctic Islands today? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, Canadian sovereignty.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Renewable Resources. The Minister mentioned he approached the federal government three times with regard to a particular problem. I want to find out if he has other plans if he does not get answers to the three questions he previously asked. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Renewable Resources has tried to find out what they would do next. Our lawyer will be looking into further plans with regard to this. We have been looking at other options which we may be able to use. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I notice there are three alternatives which the Minister has given to the federal government. Considering the time constraints regarding the plans for PanArctic to dump scrap metals in the Arctic Ocean, why has the Minister not made a fourth option, that is to delay the dumping until satisfactory arrangements can be made?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is one of the options we are looking at. It requires a legal injunction. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Mr. Speaker, has the Minister notified the federal government of that fourth option?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No. I know ITC has applied under the Environmental Protection Act, section 86(4), that this section would allow any group to make a notice of objection for this type of dumping. Thank you.

Mr. Arvaluk, this is your final supplementary.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Why has the territorial government not done the same thing as ITC has done?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am keeping an open communication between my office and the federal Minister's office. We are not going to do that until we are sure we cannot get satisfactory answers from the Minister's office. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to the questions earlier today on the Science Institute, I wonder if I could ask the Minister responsible for the Science Institute if he could outline the factors and reasons behind this proposed change to associate the Science Institute with Arctic College? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Science Institute, Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Speaker, as a result of my musings and a change in receiving some instructions from my suggestions to Cabinet, what became clear to me was that I was not in any way reneging on the direction which had been agreed to, in fact, with the support of the honourable Member, that the Science Institute be decentralized. However, when I reviewed the situation I became concerned about the purpose of those decisions. I believe one of the aspects of the programming area presently absent from the Arctic College programs is in the area of science and technology. When I look at the people who are involved in the present board, I see some significant talent and expertise there which could help the college develop very important and northern relevant science and technology programs. The other aspects that concerned me, and is a role the science institute is now playing, is in the area of research. I believe it is time for us to take the initiative to give some credibility to the Arctic College

system to be involved in the area of research, particularly in science and technology.

When I became the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs I took over the responsibility for the Science Institute, and I was quite concerned about the area of McGill University taking on a nutrition research project which should be conducted by a post-secondary institution in the Northwest Territories. It is my view that this is one of the tasks we should be looking forward to. I know there is some concern about how we were dealing with this issue.

Mr. Speaker, I personally called Mr. Parker, who is the chairman of the board, to suggest to him that perhaps we should be working together to develop a plan as to how we can approach the issue of decentralization of the Science Institute and how Arctic College could get involved in science and technology programming and research. I think it is a reasonable suggestion. It is my view we should also develop credibility in our northern Arctic College program and institution where we develop credibility in the area of northern science and technology. I needed the help of the board of directors and the Science Institute to go in this direction.

We have since formed a committee with Arctic College, the Science Institute and Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs to develop a plan as to how we could do this.

This issue is a very complex one, it is not simple and it is my view that we should put all these groups together to come up with a plan to deal with this issue. I want to advise the honourable Members that this is not simply musing on my part but I thought we should, in fact, develop our northern institution with that view. Other post-secondary institutions in Canada cover the area of science and technology. I thought we should develop a plan as to how we can get our northern college into this area. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very glad we raised the matter in this House and we are now getting some detailed information on what the thinking is on the part of the Minister and what process is being formed. I take it the Minister will be meeting with the Science Institute board on this matter.

Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Speaker, having spoken to the chairman, Mr. Parker, I also had a chance to meet with the staff of the Science Institute in December, and I will also be meeting with the board tomorrow at approximately 2:00 pm.

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister visualizes these changes is it his intention that the integrity of the Science Institute be preserved so it retains its ability to obtain third party funding from the national research council, private industry and other potential funding sources? Thank you.

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is certainly my intention to ensure whatever results from this has that particular integrity. Whether it is the Arctic College system or whether it is a structure which is new, those structures may require legislative changes. I would want to ensure, without doubt, that any replacement or any changes will ensure the integrity of any institution to continue to raise money either through third party or private donations for the purpose of research.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yellowknife MLAs were severely criticized by the federal government for making comments about the Giant/Royal Oak strike, since it is the position of the federal government that this is a matter between two parties and the jurisdiction for labour rests with the federal government, and that we should keep our mouths shut. However, Mr. Speaker, we have many constituents who were concerned. There was an industrial dispute inquiry formed, using the two members of a commission which had been established by the federal government, to look into this industrial dispute. Since they only met for one day and the meeting was abandoned, has a report which was expected from that commission been provided to the Minister of Labour?

Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice. Thank you.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Mr. Zoe.

Please continue, Mr. Zoe.

Item 6, written questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a written question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. Would the Minister please provide the following information regarding the Fort Resolution sawmill: a historical review of his department's involvement with the Fort Resolution sawmill; the amount and purpose of all expenses of the Government of the Northwest Territories related to the Fort Resolution sawmill, including costs such as loans, grants, forgiven debts, court ordered payments and out of court settlements; a record of the production of the sawmill during its years of operation; the number of individuals and businesses employed or contracted by the sawmill; an outline of the plans for the re-opening of the Fort Resolution sawmill, including the amounts and sources of proposed government funding; and, a record of the events that led to the closure of the sawmill. Would the Minister please provide a return on it before March 16, 1993. Mahsi.

Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions.

Mr. Speaker, this is a return to Written Question 25-12(3) asked by Mr. Lewis to the

Minister of Justice, concerning firewood offered for sale by the south Mackenzie correctional centre.

Prior to December 11, 1992, wood was sold according to a scale of quality. The best dry wood was sold for $90 per cord. A second quality mixed green wood was sold at $75 per cord. Seniors could buy wood at $55 per cord. On December 11, 1992, the price of a cord of wood was set at $95 per cord for all wood after the receipt of a complaint of unfair competition. Senior citizens can still purchase wood at $55 per cord.

The South Mackenzie Correctional Centre has been cutting and hauling wood from the Birch Creek site this winter. Cut wood is stockpiled in the woodyard. Sales have been slow this winter due to mild conditions and the high price of $95 per cord.

Approximately, 1,600 cords have been cut this fiscal year. The total number of cords sold is 1,350 cords, with another 50 cords donated to various service groups, the Hay River Reserve and parks. Ten retail clients in Yellowknife bought 500 cords. Another 900 cords were sold in the Hay River area. Approximately 200 cords are presently stockpiled.

There was no deviation from the pricing policy for any reason. All sales after December 11, 1992, were made at $95 per cord.

Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be tabling Petition 14-12(3) by a Lake Harbour residents requesting a day care centre within the community of Lake Harbour. Even though the community is small, we also require a day care centre for those working mothers within the community. The children within the community require suitable day care. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table Tabled Document 88-12(3), a copy of a motion carried by the Deh Cho Tribal Council during its Hay River meeting on September 9 to 11, 1992. The motion deals with community transfer of community health representative positions to the authority of band councils who belong to the Deh Cho Tribal Council. Thank you.

Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Pudluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 89-12(3), which was addressed to me from the Resolute Bay housing association on March 8, 1993 concerning Weber retrofit program and there will be no retrofitting for Baffin next year. The people of Resolute Bay are very concerned about this. Thank you.