We will take a short break.

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We will resume the committee's discussion with the Department of Social Services. Before we proceed with general comments, does the Minister wish to invite the witnesses in? Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Can the Sergeant-at-Arms please escort the witnesses. Madam Minister, for the record can you please introduce the witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Blair Dunbar, deputy minister and Mr. Dave Tyler, finance director.

We are dealing with the 1992-93 Main Estimates for the Department of Social Services. Are there any general comments? Mr. Antoine.

General Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to make some general comments on the Department of Social Services. I would like to inform the Minister and her staff that the social services provided in my constituency is very good. The people who receive the programs and services in the communities are satisfied with the people who are involved within your department. There is no problem with them at all. The only problem I see in that department is that there is a great deal of work for only a few people. There are not many resources available to them. My concern with your department is that there are a number of unfunded positions in my riding. These people are vital to the services which are provided to the people at the community level. The job of this government, and particularly this department, is to provide programs and services to the people who need them the most. That service is provided, however, it could be done better if there were more PYs allocated. One specific area of concern is that we have a specialist who is both the alcohol and drug specialist and, at the same time, the community mental health specialist. She has two areas which she specializes in. It should actually be split up to allow for two positions in that area. She has quite a large work load to do both jobs, and to do both adequately is a real challenge. As more services are provided into the communities, there are more social problems being identified. Because of the work and the level of services provided in my riding, this is a concern. I wanted to make this comment. The people we have in our area are very good and they work well with all of the communities. The leadership in the communities are totally satisfied with this working.

The other things which I wanted to mention is that in Social Services, in the area of the senior citizens' home, there is an area which overlaps. Once you get into level II and level III care, it switches from Social Services to health issues. We have a senior citizens' home in Fort Simpson. The elders are getting older. There are more of them coming in. We have to start looking at another level of service to provide them with the care which is required. There again, we are looking at extra funding for them. There is a situation in Fort Simpson where three years ago when this home was first opened with $292,000, to date the budget is still the same. There has been no increase in the last three years. As the elders get older there is more and more level III care provided. The level of funding has not increased with the amount of care which is being provided.

It is getting very difficult to operate. I have nothing against the other communities I am going to mention, but I just want to compare some numbers because there is going to be a new senior citizens' home on the Hay River reserve. I think it is a good thing there. All the communities should have senior citizens' homes. I want to compare the funding levels. There are going to be five elders in this facility in Hay River. I understand the budget is $345,000. As well, there is a home in Rae that has eight elders. The amount of beds we have in Fort Simpson is 12 and we have $292,000. If you start comparing it, I do not know if you have a criteria for funding senior citizens' homes. How do you base the funding in each home? I know there are other facilities around the north. Does the Minister have a criteria in her department to determine the level of funding that goes to each senior citizens' home? On the Hay River reserve, there are five beds and they are getting $345,000. We have 12 beds in Fort Simpson and we have been getting $292,000 for the last three years. I think there are centres around the north. I wonder if the level of funding is to the number of beds, or what? Is there a criteria that you follow? Thank you.

Thank you. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The criteria that is in use is the modified plan from Manitoba, but we do not have enough in our base yet to develop, so that is where we are at right now.

Thank you. Member for Nahendeh.

Thank you. Is your department going to be developing a policy or some criteria to determine how senior citizens' homes are going to be funded?

Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Thank you. Are there general comments? Mr. Antoine.

Is this criteria being presently developed, or is it going to be developed? If it is, when are we going to be seeing this criteria? Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will let Mr. Dunbar respond to that.

Mr. Dunbar, you have the floor.

Yes, Mr. Chairman. Work has been done with the various contractors in the senior citizens' facilities over the last two or three years in trying to develop an agreed upon staffing and program plan. We have used the standards that were developed in Manitoba, so we were not re-inventing the wheel completely. These have been modified. The dilemma lies in the fact that, in order to staff up to the appropriate levels in all of these facilities, we just do not have enough money in the base yet to accomplish that. Part of the difficulty which has occurred in some of these areas is contracts were tendered. The amounts that some of the facilities currently receive are based upon the results of tenders which are two or three years old.

Thank you. Member for Nahendeh.

Thank you. The problem in Fort Simpson is that they have been operating on the same level of funding for the last three years and it is always short. Now, they need a supplement to operate to the level they are supposed to. I was wondering if the department is aware of that. I was wondering if the department is dealing with it. If so, will this facility in Fort Simpson receive additional funding?

Thank you. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we are talking with the operator.