Thank you. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is the priority of the department. In fact, it really depends where you are from. I will use one of my constituencies as an example. One of the smaller communities may feel they are neglected by the department but when you really look at the situation, because they are in isolation, they feel like they need the attention. If you look at the situation on a needs basis, there are other communities who have more severe problems with alcohol which receive more attention than the other smaller communities who have a lesser degree of alcohol problems. So, perhaps our department should be communicating better to the community workers. In Clyde River, for example, they

have a committee and a worker. However, as the Minister of Social Services, I would not consider it one of the communities on a priority list because the nature of the problem with alcohol is not as great as some of the other communities.

Thank you. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If my honourable colleague recalls, when we were first elected and the committees were formed, the government priority list, which you just named, was recommended by the Standing Committee on Finance. Those are the priorities of this government. I can recall very clearly at our finance committee meeting when I was an ordinary Member, when we were setting our goals and objectives, we set the priority list for this government. Thank you.

Thank you. Alcohol, drugs and community mental health. Mr. Zoe.

Hear, hear.

Thank you. The honourable Member is indicating why he asked the question why. Would you like to respond to that, Madam Minister? Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, I believe the Minister responsible for Social Services has indicated that within the departmental responsibility there is a great deal of effort and attempt to deal with this issue. As the Member has indicated, he sees the priority placed within the department. The question is, why is it not a high priority or is it a high priority within the overall government? I know as we discuss issues and concerns everything becomes a priority. Maybe we should just have a line across that everything is a priority.

The problem with drugs and alcohol is that it is an outcome of a symptom of living and that there are certain poor elements of a standard of living which have to be met to ensure people feel as though they are contributing citizens, that they have the mental stability to deal with every day problems, and that they have an educational background to feel they can be competitive. One of the areas in trying to address those issues is that people's basic needs have to be met in order to make them functional citizens and individuals. The areas which have been brought to our attention many times is that people who feel they do not have an educational background, they cannot compete, do not feel good about themselves. They feel they cannot compete or make a choice. Therefore, people lean towards an escape mechanism which ends up being alcohol. If you are in a housing situation where it is overcrowded or you are part of the family group and you cannot get out, and there are no options for good accommodation to house your family independently so you can bring up your family in a style of value system you feel is important, at times you turn to alcohol. In the end, if you do not have a job to go to, a functional part so you can earn your own living, these are all contributing factors to why people seek solace and perhaps drugs and alcohol.

Alcohol is seen as a final -- I cannot recall the social word for it -- but, it is a place where you find a hiding spot because all these things are not working for you. You cannot get a job. When you want a job you do not have the educational status to get that job. When you want to go out and do something you are not equipped. There are no jobs. If you want to start a little business there is no opportunity. All of these issues contribute to why a person tries to find solace in alcohol, it gives you a false sense of security.

Why do people seek that avenue? I would say because housing is a priority. That is a drug and alcohol mechanism to get people out of that trend. Education, which gives people the tools to be self-sufficient and feel good about themselves, is a part of it. Then, we will not get in that situation because the drug and alcohol problem is the end result of how people feel about themselves. I think very few people go out there with the stated purposes of having a good time in many instances. It is just that it gives people a sense that perhaps it is not so bad after all.

However, we have to resolve the fundamental problems we have. It is not that drug and alcohol programs are not important, it is because the foundation of the problem has been identified as the living styles which people are presently in. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have been listening, with interest, to the response the Premier made regarding the "whys" of the alcohol problems, suicide problems, deaths which are occurring and also the contributing factors. I wonder whether the department itself has relied on professional people such as psychologists to tell you exactly "why" these problems are happening. I am sure one of the things is the way you live. We are caught up in this whole Euro-Canadian style of living. You have a house, a car and you are educated. That is great, maybe for a white person, but what about the aboriginal person? What is missing in an aboriginal person that makes him do what he is doing now, because that is where the concentration should be.

We do not see a high suicide rate or many alcohol problems among non-native people however, it is certainly evident. Why is it? It is because of security. White people are secure by the way they live and it is their style and culture. However, for aboriginal people, there is something missing. I do not know whether this department has ever addressed that issue. It is good to have programs and services, but it goes beyond that and we are not addressing it.

In Fort Good Hope, for example, within about two and a half weeks there were approximately about five attempted suicides. Why are those children attempting to take their life away? There is something missing in aboriginal people that, perhaps, everyone else has that reassures them of their survival.

With regard to the Premier's statement on the false sense of security, I certainly feel that false sense of security if we are looking at it from an aboriginal point of view. Psychologists will tell you there are two different cultures. Make no mistake about it. Those are the experts who you should be relying on to tell you why those things are happening, and address it. Part of it is not because they do not have a big house or because they do not have a car in the driveway, or that they have a grade 12 diploma, that is not it, it is that we are not encouraging them to start valuing their own ways.

We value white culture and their thinking, but I think aboriginal values are just as important and we are not touching on that at all. Through these programs we are addressing what is out there -- the alcohol problem, but the cultural problem has never been addressed. I think if we are going to prevent future suicide, we have to look at aboriginal people as aboriginal people. I think that is what is missing in most of the programs right now. A person does need a house in order for them to be secure. An aboriginal person would not think that way. Shelter perhaps, but should it be a house? Would a tent do just as well or an igloo? What is wrong with those kinds of shelters? We are not addressing those kinds of things. We are giving the aboriginal people a false sense that the house is the most important part of a shelter. I would say a teepee serves just as well. We should be touching on those things. We are not doing that. I think this government should look at that as a priority.

Thank you. Madam Minister, do you want to respond to the Member's comment?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not a psychologist, but I think one of the problems I see is, where I grew up there was no school. It was very recently the houses were brought in. Everyone lived in Cumberland Sound with their families. It is when the federal government brought in the people who were scattered in Cumberland Sound into one larger population in a community that we started to see some of the problems which are still escalating today. It is also a matter of learning how to live in a community, as a community. It is not because of what you said, lack of these things. For me to say, "Yes, I will make a commitment as a single department," I do not think Social Services is the answer. It has to be with the Departments of Education, Economic Development and Tourism and all of the elected leaders here, to try to come up with some solutions to these problems. The communities are feeling pressured because only 30 years ago, they did not live with that many other people in one community. That is right. They do not have to, but I am very aware of the issues you made a comment on. Where I grew up, we did not have houses. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Chairman, one of the things that came out of the programs which have been designed in Hay River is with regard to the aboriginal language in the addiction field. The Minister is aware of this proposal itself, I am sure. The difficulty right now is that the aboriginal program is not delivered by your department. Is that correct? You are still responsible for addiction services, but what do we do addressing the aboriginal issue? I do not know if you have been made aware of it, but I think this discussion paper has stopped as a result of your department saying, "We are not responsible for aboriginal languages." What do we do? The community is caught between two departments. We need a concerted effort. As Ms. Mike said, this is not a Social Services issue. This is a government issue that should be addressed soon. As long as we do not address the aboriginal issue, we are still going to have the same kind of social problems which we are having now, such as mental health, suicide and alcohol.

Thank you. The hour is now 2:00 pm. I have no alternative but to rise and report progress.

Item 19, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Chairman.