This is page numbers 239 - 270 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was information.

Topics

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I found it today. This is a written question to the Premier.

1. What was the cost of advertising supplements in Above and Beyond magazine featuring NWT Housing Corporation, MACA and Education?

2. Is it the policy of the Government of the Northwest Territories to purchase advertising copy from publishers who present the advertising as if it was an editorial copy without identifying it as a paid advertising supplement?

3. Is it not the policy of the Government of the Northwest Territories to tender such significant advertising supplements to northern publishers so as to give every northern business equal opportunity for government advertising business? Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk. The House will recess for 15 minutes. Thank you.

---SHORT BREAK

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

I would like to call this House back to order. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, replies to budget address. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Mr. Lewis's Reply

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will be fairly brief. Now that we have two budgets, Madam Speaker, both a fall and a winter budget, it is not easy for the government to set out its agenda in its entirety in one address, as we were able to do at one time.

For that reason, Madam Speaker, although this session is dealing with capital, the address given by the Minister of Finance contained a mixture of information both about capital and O and M. He gave an overview of our total fiscal position and the causes of our deficit, including loss of funding for social housing, the high costs of fire fighting and proposed cuts to language programs.

The Minister pointed out, Madam Speaker, our revenue problems are great, and he's talked about that many times. Our population is far too small to expect to raise very much revenue through traditional taxation regimes. I agree that the only way in which we can raise significant revenues is through control of those sectors of the economy that produce wealth. I refer to minerals and oil and gas.

Madam Speaker, Members will recall that Mr. Chretien addressed us in this chamber shortly after he became Prime Minister a year ago. He made it clear -- and I would like to quote what he said to us in this chamber -- "We will devolve to this government those powers exercised by the federal government on your behalf, at a pace, and according to a timetable, set by this government." And, he was referring to the territorial government.

---Applause

That was a solemn commitment made by the Prime Minister of Canada to the people of the Northwest Territories in this Assembly. Somehow, things have changed. We now hear of difficulties of living up to that commitment since some residents of the Northwest Territories do not wish to see further devolution of power to this government.

In my view, if the federal government continues to be convinced that this government has reached its maximum level of development, we will begin a very difficult period of decline. In fact, in my view, Madam Speaker, that process has already begun.

Given our limited ability to raise revenue, the federal cuts that we are experiencing will have an inevitable effect; a complete lack of confidence in the current system of government by all citizens, not just by a small number of interest groups. If there is going to be devolution to local, tribal or regional governments, the federal government must give up many of its remaining powers to the territorial government if public government is going to survive.

The Prime Minister made that commitment to this Assembly and we should hold him accountable to what he said, since he has made a reputation of being a man of his word and he holds up the red book time and time again, saying, "This is my commitment to the people of Canada." He should do the same for the people of the Northwest Territories in terms of a commitment he made to us in this Assembly just a year ago.

Like all the governments, Madam Speaker, we're all facing deficits and we have to find ways of controlling our expenditures. It's interesting for me, Madam Speaker, to note that, like the basketball, baseball and hockey leagues, our government seems to want a salary cap and a large selection of take-aways from those benefits people have fought for over many, many years. It's been pointed out to us that at least five provinces have legislated salaries for their public servants. I urge this government to bargain in good faith and if necessary, allow the process of mediation and arbitration to proceed.

I have a bias against the use of the club of legislation, Madam Speaker. Legislation is a very powerful weapon and should be used for emergencies, not as an easy convenience, even though we are facing some difficult times.

I am pleased, Madam Speaker, to note the government recognizes the importance of the capital plan and promoting the social and economic well-being of northern people. A continuing problem for all of us though, is the lack of a constant and clear plan of where we are going as a government, not just this government, but as a northern people, a northern society.

We identified many years ago -- and it's been a theme that I've been aware of for as long as I've lived in the Northwest Territories -- the dependence on government as the major barrier to northern development. The Ministers clearly identified the creation of wealth as our major challenge. I hope we recognize the federal agenda for this whole country is to reduce people's reliance on social programs and to promote them into the workforce as the way, in order to create a stable, healthy society.

Although strong economic men and women don't guarantee a strong social fabric, progressive stable societies usually emerge when a large part of the population is employed, pays taxes and relies less on government for assistance. It's my hope that our government still sees this dependence on government as a major challenge. I'm a little bit concerned that we may be giving mixed messages to the public about really what we're trying to do, especially in light of the comments made by the Finance committee which has now been clarified and we are all very thankful for that.

Finally, Madam Speaker, for our further development, health and stability, we need confirmation of further devolution to this government and a clear statement from the federal government of its continued commitment to public government in the Northwest Territories since, I should point out, it is a creation of a federal act and there's a growing feeling we are being abandoned. I wouldn't like to see that happen. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 10, replies to budget address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 12: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

October 12th, 1994

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. In accordance with its terms of reference, the Standing Committee on Finance is pleased to submit its report on the review from the 1995-96 capital estimates of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Therefore, the committee decided it was both necessary and timely to examine both the budget processes as a whole and the outstanding issues related to the operating budget, in addition to the proposed capital expenditures.

The primary purpose of the September meetings of the Standing Committee on Finance was to review the five-year capital plan for the time period from 1995-96 until 1999-2000. The committee decided to approach this review by focusing on policy and major financial issues. Further, the committee decided to save the detailed line-by-line scrutiny of the capital budget for the participation of all Members of the committee of the whole. This decision was made in the interest of holding a full public debate.

The committee reviewed the five-year capital plan for the period 1995-96 to 1999-2000 in the context of the larger issues of overall government fiscal policy and effective resource management. Committee Members carefully reviewed fiscal strategies and plans, as well as spending priorities. Throughout the review, committee Members focused on finding solutions to problems identified. New and innovative approaches to conducting the business of government were explored and are reported in this document.

The 1995-96 capital estimates represent the last capital budget to be presented by the current government. The government is proposing to spend close to $195 million for capital projects in the fiscal year 1995-96. This figure is approximately 12 per cent lower than the current year revised forecast of $221.5 million.

In his opening remarks to the committee, the chairman of the Financial Management Board said two key decisions were made with the 1995-96 capital budget. The first was that the government could not afford the capital programs that are in place. The chairman cited, as evidence, the 20-year capital needs assessment which calls for annual capital spending levels that are twice the current annual budget.

In response to this major issue, the Financial Management Board launched a comprehensive government-wide review of capital standards and criteria. The major objective of this review is to bring capital requirements into line with capital resources. The chairman also expects the review will provide the framework for developing alternatives to current programs. The FMB chairman commanded that until this is done, the development of a realistic and responsive long-term capital strategy is not possible. The Standing Committee on Finance looks forward to seeing the results of the capital standards and criteria review.

The second major decision, described by the FMB chairman, affecting the 1995-96 capital budget was that the government could not significantly reduce the 1995-96 capital program without compromising the fundamental well-being of NWT residents. He pointed out that commitments have been made, programs have been implemented and contracts have been let. He went on to say eliminations of capital projects on a large scale would undermine all that the government has been trying to accomplish over the last three years.

During the review of the 1994-95 capital estimates, the Standing Committee on Finance recommended that changes be made to the five-year capital forecast documents to clarify and ensure consistency in the reporting of prior year, current year and total expenditures.

The Financial Management Board responded promptly to this recommendation with proposals for changes. The proposed changes are incorporated in the five-year capital forecast documents from 1995-96. The committee also recommended, during the review, that the Financial Management Board provide substantiation for any changes over $100,000 in planned expenditures.

A report that compared the 1994-95 capital forecast to the 1995-96 capital forecast for any changes over $250,000 in planned expenditures was sent to the committee for its review of the 1995-96 capital estimates. The Financial Management Board suggests that using a $250,000 cut-off would provide a more meaningful and manageable report for a couple of reasons.

First, the volume of changes at $100,000, based solely on revised cost estimates, would be very large. Second, $250,000 is the level for reporting transfers and overexpenditures to the Legislative Assembly. Committee Members were satisfied with the results and found the report very useful in conducting its review.

At this time, Madam Speaker, I will be turning the rest of the Standing Committee on Finance report over to a colleague, the honourable Kelvin Ng.

Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 12: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Consultation Process

Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The committee noted, once again, that there have been significant improvements to the capital planning process over the last few years. The comprehensive consultation process has been initiated. Government consults with the communities through local governments and Members of the Legislative Assembly. These enhancements are designed to ensure that this government's capital budget reflects the real capital needs of the citizens and their communities. There is, however, still room for improvement in the consultation process.

The committee noted, during its review, several examples where there are problems with community input into the capital planning process. In some instances, capital projects were not scheduled in accordance with community priorities. In other cases, consultations with the communities did not result in changes to the capital plans to reflect identified community needs.

The committee was concerned to see that plans to provide an elders' residence in Gjoa Haven have been deleted in the five-year capital plan document under review. Although the Minister explained, during her appearance before the committee, that the department was considering replacing elders' residences with home care programs in some communities, it appears that the community of Gjoa Haven was not adequately consulted and did not agree to the substitution. The committee urges the government to review this particular case and to remain vigilant in ensuring that the consultation process works effectively.

Capital Expenditure Issues

Business Incentive Policy

The Minister responsible for Public Works and Services informed the committee that the department was planning to conduct extensive consultation during the summer months and have a new process in place for this tendering season. The committee was disappointed to discover that the department had fallen behind in its timetable. The result, of course, is a missed opportunity -- a large missed opportunity; $105 million in capital projects not falling within the scope of a new, improved business incentive policy.

Many Members noted a number of problems with the present policy. The present policy does not appear to be adequately or strictly enforced. Enforcement is one of the key elements which would contribute to the successful application of this policy. Members wonder if the committee of deputies currently responsible for enforcement might be replaced by a more effective enforcement mechanism. Members would like to see consideration given to an arbitration or ombudsman type of enforcement mechanism.

During the September budget review, the committee was provided with a document outlining a new proposal for the policy. Members understand that this document is intended for use during the public consultation. However, the document did not provide enough detailed information for the committee to review. The committee's preliminary impression of the policy proposal is that it will still be far too complicated in its application. Members believe that a simplified process could and should be developed fairly quickly. This initiative is a high priority.

Arctic Resupply

The resupply initiative is a very important one to the territorial government and its constituents. In the September 1994 review, the committee was presented with another briefing on the resupply initiative. This briefing was focused, as requested, on the eastern Arctic. Committee Members noted there appears to be a large potential for cost-savings if resupply initiatives are coordinated with the whole of the Arctic. The committee learned that two different departments are responsible for resupply initiatives. The Department of Public Works and Services is responsible for resupplying the Baffin, while the Department of Transportation is responsible for resupplying the Keewatin. Members feel that the whole resupply initiative could function much more efficiently if one department took the lead role. It is inappropriate on such a major initiative -- particularly one that is directed at achieving savings through economies of scale -- that two different departments are assuming the lead role in neighbouring regions. Madam Speaker, at the appropriate time we will be making the following motion:

Recommendation 1

The Standing Committee on Finance recommends that the government examine the issue of resupply across the entire Arctic and that the Department of Transportation assume the lead role for planning, design and implementation.

Madam Speaker, that concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Finance on its review of the 1995-96 capital estimates.

Motion To Receive And Move Committee Report 10-12(6) To Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Therefore, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine, that the report of the Standing Committee on Finance on its review of the 1995-96 capital estimates, be received by the Assembly and moved into committee of the whole. Thank you.

Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 12: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 12: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

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An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 12: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question has been called. All those in favour? Thank you. All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Madam Premier.

Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 12: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I wish to return to tabling of documents.

Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 12: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier is requesting unanimous consent to return to Item 14, tabling of documents. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Item 14, tabling of documents. Madam Premier.

Revert To Item 14: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I wish to table, Tabled Document 30-12(6), The Annual Report of the Status of Women Council of the Northwest Territories for the Year Ending March 31, 1994.

Revert To Item 14: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open for Business" - Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power Corporation; Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94 Electoral District Boundaries Commission, Northwest Territories; Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session; Committee Report 6-12(6), Report on the Review of Bill 3 - Guardianship and Trusteeship Act; Committee Report 7-12(6), Report on the Review of Bill 7 - An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act; Committee Report 9-12(6), Investing In Our Future, October 1994; Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96; Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act; Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act; Bill 6, Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act; Bill 7, Arctic College Act; and Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will now come to order. When we concluded yesterday afternoon, we were on general comments on Bill 6, Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act. What is the wish of the committee today? The chair recognizes the Member from Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend that we continue with Bill 6, Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, and if we are able to conclude Bill 6, then we could move on to Committee Report 7-12(6), Report on the Review of Bill 7 - An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act and subsequently Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Does the committee agree?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Then we shall continue on with Bill 6, Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act and general comments on Bill 6. My apologies, would the Minister wish to bring witnesses to the table? Does the committee agree?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Sergeant-at-Arms, assist the Minister in obtaining his witnesses.

Bill 6, Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Sergeant-at-Arms. Mr. Minister, would you be so kind as to introduce your witnesses to the committee?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left, the deputy minister of Justice, Don Avison; on my immediate right is Mark Aitken, legal counsel from the legislative division and on his right is Gerald Sutton, director of policy for the Department of Justice. Thank you.