This is page numbers 301 - 332 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was science.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Arvaluk, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 301

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Good afternoon. Prior to going to Ministers' statements, I would like to recognize the Honourable Allan Rock, Member of Parliament for Etobicoke Centre, Minister of Justice and Attorney General for Canada, seated in the gallery. Welcome to the Northwest Territories.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am pleased to advise the Members that Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation will be providing approximately $9 million in capital funding for new social housing units in the Northwest Territories this year.

---Applause

This funding is being provided under the remote housing program for fiscal year 1994-95. I wish to acknowledge and thank the Honourable David Dingwall, Minister responsible for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, for his personal support in finding money within his budget to provide some immediate assistance to us. I am pleased that my efforts, as well as those of other Cabinet Ministers and our Members of Parliament, have resulted in Mr. Dingwall recognizing the urgent housing needs we face.

As Members know, this federal funding will not come close to solving the housing problems here in the Northwest Territories, but it is a start.

I will provide additional information to this House once I have received the program details from Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Keewatin Central, Mr. Todd.

Minister's Statement 26-12(6): NWT Credit Union Week
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. October 17th to 22nd has been set aside to celebrate National Co-op Week with October 20th being Credit Union Day.

---Applause

This is a hard one to say. On behalf of many co-op members, staff and board of directors of the NWT cooperatives, I would like to declare October 17th to October 22 as NWT Cooperative Week.

I am pleased to extend my warmest greetings to the members of the Northwest Territories cooperative credit union movement as you celebrate co-op week and International Credit Union Day.

This year's theme, the Co-op Family: Building a Better Future...Saluting the 1994 International Year of the Family, reflects the importance that the cooperative and credit union movement places on the family, which it recognizes as the cornerstone of a strong and vibrant society.

My best wishes to the cooperative movement for a productive and enjoyable week, as well as for every success in meeting your objectives in the years to come. Thank you.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 26-12(6): NWT Credit Union Week
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Federal Firearms Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today on behalf of the Ordinary Members' Caucus to speak on an issue that touches us all in the territories. That issue is the proposed legislation relating to gun control. Madam Speaker, the federal government may pass legislation that would require all firearms, including long arms, to be registered. Presently, legislation requires that only restricted weapons must be registered. This proposed initiative, Madam Speaker, could result in significant increases in the administration and enforcement costs.

In the NWT, firearms are used as a tool to support traditional lifestyles of our people. In the Northwest Territories, people use firearms to provide income as well as protection from animals. This legislation, Madam Speaker, would place unnecessary control on the people of the north, as well as present enforcement problems.

Each community could require an enforcement officer to execute this legislation. But this is not all, Madam Speaker. The federal government is also proposing a restriction on ammunition purchases. The intention is to control the sales of ammunition by requiring a firearm acquisition permit to purchase it. The lifestyle of the north provides for fathers, sons, uncles and brothers to hunt together. It is a way of life, Madam Speaker. To limit access to ammunition in this way would pose unnecessary restrictions on our way of life.

Our federal Minister, Mr. Rock, may believe that a mandatory universal registration of firearms in Canada will make it a safer place. Members of the Ordinary Members' Caucus fully support safe use of firearms. We appreciate the Minister travelling to the north to better understand how we use firearms as a part of our traditional lifestyle.

We hope, in preparing legislation, the Minister will acknowledge our unique situation and provide exemptions or other mechanisms which will provide legislation that is practical, safe and realistic in the northern environment. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Federal Firearms Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 302

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Obtaining Pardon For Past Criminal Record
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 302

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, it is with pride that I rise today to inform this House and the public that on August 22nd of this year I was granted a Queen's pardon for all of my past transgressions.

---Applause

What this means, Madam Speaker, is that outside of the run-ins with buffalo and highway patrol, I have been on good behaviour for over 10 years. Madam Speaker, I can put my good behaviour over the last 10 years down to the fact that I am no longer young and foolish. No longer young anyway.

---Applause

And perhaps a bit more mature. Madam Speaker, as you and everyone in this House knows, persons in the public eye are subject to more scrutiny than the average Joe Public. You have to watch what you say and do all the time. I have definitely learned my lesson in that capacity.

The reason, Madam Speaker, that I chose to get up and make this announcement was to encourage other people to take charge of their lives. The process of getting a pardon is not too difficult. What is required is that a person be of good behaviour with no criminal convictions for a period of five years.

However, Madam Speaker, I must warn the public that the process itself can take one to two years from initial application to the granting of a pardon. About 25 years ago, I did some pretty stupid things and I would like to state for the record, Madam Speaker, that even though I am not obliged, I will be making restitutions to the people I have wronged. If I can change, I am sure that everyone else who makes an honest effort can also.

The Northwest Territories and its people have always been famous for giving a person a second chance. All you have to do, Madam Speaker, is take advantage of it. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Obtaining Pardon For Past Criminal Record
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 302

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

The Canadian Justice System
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 302

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today we are honoured by the visit of the Honourable Allan Rock, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada. I think it is an appropriate opportunity to give our viewpoints of the present state of the Canadian justice system.

Four recent rulings by the Supreme Court of Canada have provoked criticisms by places, by victims' organizations, by many politicians and much of the public. The High Court has put so much emphasis on the right of the accused, that the rights of victims and the rights of society at large are being diminished.

I think Members are aware of these four particular cases. I will go through them quickly. One of the cases was that extreme drunkenness might sometimes be used against sexual assault charges. The second decision was one where suspected drunk drivers don't have to take a breathalyser test unless they are given a chance to contact their lawyer first. The third example is DNA evidence linking the accused to the rape of an elderly woman couldn't be used because the police did not follow the proper procedures. And, I just read in the newspaper that last Thursday, the Supreme Court ruled that a man who stabbed his wife and killed her by smashing her against a sidewalk curb will get his third chance to argue that he should be acquitted because he was sleep-walking.

Although some legal experts have minimized the actual impact of these rulings on the justice system, at the very least, a strong symbolic message has been sent out to present and future violent offenders that our legal system remains very user-friendly to them. It seems to me, anyhow, that the Canadian justice system is in danger of losing relevance and credibility as it struggles to deal with the harsh realities of violent crimes in today's context with a philosophy of laws and procedures more appropriate to a gentler past era.

Although there is no doubt that intense media coverage of violent crimes often inflames and exaggerates public fears, the fact remains that the face of crime is getting uglier and more chilling .

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue my statement.

The Canadian Justice System
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Ballantyne.

The Canadian Justice System
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Parents are very concerned that children are not safe anywhere in Canada. They are being kidnapped, attacked and murdered at an alarming rate. Two cases that have, to me, become metaphors for public concern about our legal system are the following: One is the saga of Charles Ng, an individual who had been charged with particularly horrendous tortures and murders in California and who escaped to Canada. Our government and our legal system, I understand, spent close to $4 million over a four-year period before this individual was finally extradited to the United States.

Another very troubling case that Canadians have been following lately is the Paul Teale/Carla Homolka case in Ontario. It seems our system will spend lavish amounts of money to ensure that these types of accused are afforded the very, very best in a legal defence. I think that sometimes, in our almost slavish devotion to making sure justice is done to the accused, we sometimes forget the unspeakable horrors involved in the crimes, the shattered hopes and dreams of families and friends who will never be able to erase the insane cruelty that snuffed out the lives of their children.

It came close to home here in Yellowknife over the last three years. Four young girls have disappeared. The police suspect foul play. I understand also that federally-funded victims' programs are in danger of having their finances cut.

I guess to me the bottom line in a justice system is that of balance. It seems that the government, the system as a whole, lawyers, judges and everyone involved in the system, have to look at many ways to deal with this. This is not a partisan political issue. I made that point to Minister Rock, though the Reform Party and others have made it a prime issue for them. I think it is something that affects all of us. I think, as Minister Rock stated at lunch, it is going to take a diverse number of solutions.

It is a very complex problem and the solutions are obviously going to have to involve enhanced victims' programs, very aggressive intervention for troubled youth, new laws that allow the police and prosecutors to obtain legitimate convictions so that criminals are not getting off on technicalities. There are some cases where stronger deterrents for violent crimes are needed -- longer jail sentences. And, stronger community involvement is needed. This is not something that just the justice system alone can do. It is something that all of us have to be involved in.

It seems to me that in Canada today, Canadians must re-examine and redefine our justice system to ensure it is appropriate to modern realities and that the rights of victims, the rights of society as a whole, as well as the rights of the accused, are looked after in better balance than we do now. I think it is very important that we do that if we are going to continue to say that we, in Canada, have the best justice system in the world. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

The Canadian Justice System
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Prior to going on with Members' statements, I would like to recognize a former colleague of ours in the gallery, Nick Sibbeston. Good afternoon and welcome.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Nerysoo.

Tribute To Chief James Ross
Item 3: Members' Statements

October 16th, 1994

Page 303

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wanted to take this opportunity to pay a tribute to Chief James Ross, who recently resigned his duties as chief of the Tetlit Zheh Gwich'in. There are days when we must all make significant decisions that change our lives and the roles we play in providing service to others.

James, who has been my friend and I know the friend of many in this House, and a political leader for many years, has chosen to play a different role in the development of the Gwich'in nation. I want to thank James for his continued contribution to the Gwich'in nation, his personal commitment to serving the Gwich'in and the residents of Fort McPherson and the Mackenzie Delta.

I know that, as political leaders, we all realize the importance of the support that is necessary from our families. In saying this, I want to recognize the support that has been given and the sacrifice that has been made by his wife, Mary, and his children, Frederick, Kayla, Stephanie and Jolene, during his tenure as chief.

I know all of us would want to extend our best wishes to James Ross in his future endeavours and recognize and thank him for his contribution to providing leadership and advice when it was necessary. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Tribute To Chief James Ross
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Gun Control
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, for some odd reason, whenever things happen in southern Canada and in the United States that are of concern we, here in the Northwest Territories, feel the negative impact of legislation being created to correct that concern. More often than not, the input from northern people is seldom sought.

Today we had a very interesting meeting with Minister Rock and I would like to thank him for coming all the way to the Northwest Territories to hear our concerns on the issue, certainly on the one I'm going to raise, of gun control. An example of legislation would be the Migratory Bird Conservation Act. It was passed at the turn of the century by the United States, Mexico and southern Canada to conserve our bird population. No consultation was ever done in the Northwest Territories on the impact that it would have on the people.

It affected the spring hunting of hunters and trappers. That was an historical event. It was a time of year when people could take birds because in the fall, when the act allowed for hunting, any bird with any common sense -- that is; ducks and geese -- would have been long gone. It affected, until just recently, the ban on the sealing and whaling. Again, it was not northerners' fault that there was a problem with seal and whale hunting, but we felt that problem. The anti-fur law is another one.

Now there is a threat of gun control. Perhaps it's misunderstood, but nevertheless without consultation, it certainly would end up having a very severe negative impact on northern peoples.

Madam Speaker, just by way of example, there are very serious concerns on the restriction of all types of firearms. Madam Speaker, my time has run out. I seek unanimous consent to continue.

Gun Control
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays, Mr. Whitford.

Gun Control
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Some of these things, I think, may have been assuaged through our meeting. However, I want to point out that these concerns are still on the minds of northern hunters and trappers when they hear what is happening in southern Canada and they hear that there is going to be a restriction on certain areas. They want to be assured that it's not going to have a negative impact on it, because people here use firearms far differently than they're used in southern Canada.

There is a suggestion that there would be an annual fee, like a registration fee, for each gun a person owns. Everybody here in the north knows the average trapper has several guns. They're like tools to the tradesperson. A carpenter has many saws for different jobs. The hunter has different guns for different types of tasks.

I use myself as an example, Madam Speaker. I have several guns which I used in my early years to hunt small game birds and big game, as well. To register them all, to pay a fee for all of them, would be quite negative to northern peoples.

The restriction of the number of guns we would be able to own is of concern. The centralization of firearms, I recognize the fact that it's probably an asinine suggestion to even do that anywhere. Nonetheless, people's fears are in those areas. Many people in my riding have little difficulty in accepting restrictions on certain types of guns such as automatic firing guns and different calibers. There is no need in this territory for owning machine or submachine guns, this type of thing. People recognize that fact. We use them here like a tool, so to have those types of guns around is perhaps not a necessity.

Same with the registration of handguns. They are mainly used for sports. It would not have an adverse impact to register firearms like the law requires at the present time. To use identification to purchase ammunition may be a difficulty in the territories. The use of the documentation that's going to be required to buy shells or cartridges, then to buy guns, again is going to be unmanageable here given the numbers of people who would have difficulty in completing the forms.

I just recently saw documents I had to help individuals fill out just to get the firearms permit. I had difficulty with them, Madam Speaker. And I'm saying to the federal government, if they're listening, take a good look at where these things are going to impact.

Here in the territories, we buy guns at a young age. Perhaps I am speaking again for myself. I will hopefully, like my grandfather did with me, transfer that gun to my namesakes, later on. I have guns that go back almost 50 years. They were handed down from father to son. I would do the same thing.

Madam Speaker, I say again to the Minister, thank you for coming to look at our territories and to listen to our concerns. It is going to be quite helpful in our future input into gun control. Thank you very much.

Gun Control
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

Healing Workshop In Resolute Bay
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Qujannamiik. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to rise today to thank Members. In the last 18 years some students were finally able to bring forth their concerns with regard to their teachers taking advantage of them. For 18 years, the students have been hurt deeply. Madam Speaker, the same people I'm talking about are having a meeting in one community. They're attending a healing workshop. This is the first kind of meeting they have been involved in, Madam Speaker. There are a lot of different people gathering in Resolute Bay and these people are involved in a meeting whereby they're taking part in this healing workshop.

I'm very thankful for the coordinators who are taking part in this and who are trying to help with the healing workshop. I feel the children will feel helped and some of them will start to heal. I would like to see more of this in the future. I'm very thankful for people who have participated in the workshop and also thankful to the people who are involved from the Department of Social Services. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Healing Workshop In Resolute Bay
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

National Co-op Week
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I was very pleased this afternoon to hear the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism announce that this week is National Co-op Week. We would like to congratulate all the co-ops in the Northwest Territories and all the members of these co-ops. Cooperatives have been a vibrant part of our northern economy. Originally, they were involved in the arts and crafts business and today they're involved in all aspects of our economy.

Thursday, October 20th has been set aside as National Credit Union Day. I find this ironic because here in the north we don't have an active credit union. There has been a lot of active lobbying over the past years to get one established, and I would encourage this government to continue supporting cooperatives in the Northwest Territories and the initiatives to establish a credit union in the Northwest Territories. Mahsi.

---Applause

National Co-op Week
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 305

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statement. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.