Thank you. I believe that we can probably get by, but probably at some time we're going to have to come back and ask the Members to consider the issue again. Just again so that you're aware that it's a camera that we're talking about, and not necessarily other video equipment.

Just so you are aware. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Yes, we have had this issue of purchasing of video equipment come up several times, Mr. Chairman. There are a few issues here which -- although it's not a huge capital item -- always seems to cause controversy.

At one time, it was Renewable Resources which wanted to have its own propaganda, and the argument was that there was somebody in the department that knew how to operate these things, so at least the government has moved away from every department wanting to have their own to centralizing things in one department that could act as a service to the other departments of government.

The question still remains that very often these things are toys, and you wonder how many days a year they are actually used. Every individual who makes a capital purchase in his or her own private life, I suppose, has learned from that experience that you want to have something and then when you have it, you use it so many days a year and then it just sits somewhere, not being used.

So my own preference would be that we look at where the advantages are of owning as compared to leasing. Maybe you are better off to lease, and we may learn from that experience that the government then doesn't have to have stuff which is used briefly and then ends up in the government warehouse because it's surplus and not being used any more, especially when new models are coming on the market all the time.

This is the big problem. You own something. It becomes obsolete, and you say, oh, there's a better model. And the big complaint I have heard from the private sector is that they can't afford to keep up with all the trends to buy the latest equipment, because almost every year or two there's a new model that comes out that's bigger, better, more versatile and so on. That's the big beef I hear from the very few people who are involved in this business locally. They would be far better off if the private sector could buy something for which they knew there would be a use in several different phases of government operations and wouldn't have to fight every year because they see the government buying all the latest stuff to keep up to speed.

So I am very much in support of what the committee wants to do, which is to see if we can't find a better way of deciding what we want to own and what we want to lease or rent and so on. So I will be supporting the motion.

Question.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, yes.

Thank you. On my left is the deputy minister, Mr. Hal Gerein. On my right is Mr. Jim Kaulbach.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to the opening comments of the Minister, I would like to ask him a couple of questions.

In the review of their new capital planning process and trying to identify trends in population and trying to address the expected needs, in a proactive way, it's suggested, rather than to respond to the situations after they have occurred...We realize that in the past couple of years there have been some problems in the unexpected high growth of our communities and the new schools that are coming into play that are being delivered undersized or else, by the time they are ready, they are full already. So first of all, I would like to ask him what the basic criteria is for the planning of new schools. When they try to have them complete, what kind of occupancy levels are they expecting them to be at? Thank you.

Thank you. Seventy per cent.

Okay, I would like to ask the Minister then, in recognizing the problem that they have had in having schools built undersized, when have they started to address this and is it in place now where there shouldn't be these problems or that they should be minimizing these problems in future new schools? Thank you.

Thank you. I believe that the new standards and criteria will address that particular matter much better than we have done in the past. We will be able to calculate, I think, the student population but also hopefully forecast what the growth trend is in a particular community as well.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess the reason I bring this up is -- of course, I have been fortunate; there's a new elementary school that just opened in Cambridge Bay a month and a half ago, and there's one being constructed in Coppermine right now -- that it's my understanding that both these schools are at full capacity, and one's already undersized, the one in Coppermine that's coming on stream next year. These are projects that have been planned for the last couple of years, from what I understand. So, in saying that, I would like to ask how the Minister and his department will be addressing this -- I am not familiar with the situations in other constituencies -- overall within the department? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to that particular matter, it is based on the opening of the new school, and maybe it's at capacity now. I am not certain. I don't have that information with me so I can't make the calculation, but I do think that one of the things that we are trying to do is to make certain that the schools are at approximately 70 per cent, have an additional 30 per cent capacity to them, but if that's not the case then there's a bit of a problem. Just so that you are aware, we also built those two schools according to the standards that we had previously.

I would then like to ask the Minister, there's an implementation phase for the new standards which I understand are in place now for future projects, but then you have a lot of the existing schools under the old standards that, like I mentioned, are going to be in difficulty because of the sizing. So, how are you going to address that issue? By bringing forward, I guess, expansions, or how are you going to deal with the issues of undersized schools that were built by the old standards? Thank you.