Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Al Menard. He is the president of the NWT Housing Corporation. To my left is Dave Murray. He is the vice-president of programs.

Mr. Chairman, I missed the opening remarks of the Minister for the Housing Corporation, but I have had a chance to review those remarks and I note some initiatives that are outlined by the Minister. My concern is, Mr. Chairman, I believe the corporation is going to have to change substantially as a result of the sad realities of reduced federal cost-shared funding and the need to do more with less or make better use of the existing resources, recognizing that they are reduced. How is the corporation going to change to recognize the new realities in housing in the Northwest Territories? I know the communities are expected to promote

home ownership and that the corporation will be trying to promote more home ownership. That, to me, would mean there will need, in future, to be less emphasis on construction because there will be less construction by the Housing Corporation and more programs designed to encourage people to build their own homes.

I think the Minister is well aware that if we are expecting local housing authorities and associations to do that job, they are going to need a lot more support than they have had in the past. The corporation is tilting towards home ownership, as opposed to building more social housing units. If the corporation is moving to increase rents for those who can afford to pay, again, the pressure will be on the communities. Could the Minister explain how the corporation is restructuring itself to meet the new realities and, particularly, I would like to know whether there is a plan to provide more support, training, development work to community associations and authorities? Everything I hear is they are going to have to do more work and they are going to have more responsibilities. Communities are the key to the new housing strategies in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Up until this budget year, the Housing Corporation has not delivered any fewer homes in the community. We have been delivering the same amount. In the past three years, we have made major, major changes to the Housing Corporation programs and how we deliver them. We have also been doing constant lobbying and trying to get federal dollars reinstated to the Northwest Territories. In some cases, we have been successful. We have been extremely successful in changing the programs and having them made acceptable to the clients. It has taken a lot of consultation work and we have done major consultation at the regional level. At all the regional meetings, it has been made loud and clear to us that we have to refocus the Housing Corporation. We knew that as well. So we are making moves to do that. In the past, the Housing Corporation was focused on delivering units and delivering as many as possible through the construction program. In the past, we haven't been right up to par on the support we are giving our local housing authorities and associations. We are going to change that. Through our new vision statement from the corporation, the new principles and goals that have recently been revised and approved by me, as well as the Minister of Finance and SCOF, are more community-oriented. We tried our best to downsize at headquarters and put that funding into the regions and, ultimately, into communities.

Restructuring doesn't mean that we are going to reduce funding. It means that we have to restructure, so that we can better serve the clients in 1994 compared to years previously. We just have to change the way we do business. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to hear about the restructuring and the new goals that the Minister referred to. When will this House and Members of the public learn more details about this process? Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I realize that the general comments have been exhaustive in the last few days and I don't want to prolong the opening remarks, but I would like to make two comments for the record.

First, the district consultation process was excellent. I participated in the one in Baffin. It was impressive that the corporation chose neutral chairpersons to steer the discussions and that gave people a lot of confidence that the Minister, president and the officials were genuinely open to new ideas.

Secondly, I would like to say that, although we are awaiting the Minister's response to the recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Social Housing, I also wish to commend the Minister for being willing to share the decision-making with that committee. There was some concern that the committee might be only advisory or worse, a rubber stamp. My observations of that committee is that, in fact, the Minister has allowed Members to participate in decision-making on this critical issue, recognizing that it is sensitive and will require broad support in this Assembly, if it is to succeed. So I would like to commend him for that.

There is one area I would like to mention that I think is lacking in the corporation. I find the district staff responsive, beginning with the district manager. I think I have said this before in the House. But like the other department the Minister is responsible for, Public Works and Services, the Housing Corporation does not seem to be leading the way on affirmative action. I hope that when the new corporate goals and objectives are brought forward, that an aggressive affirmative action training program and policy to bring northern people into the corporation will be part of that strategy. My constituents have expressed to me that this is an area in which there could be more progress, particularly at the management level. It is hard work and it takes the aggressive recruitment of northern people to get them involved. It takes training person years, but I think this is an area that I will be looking for more progress and more corporate commitment in the new restructured corporation. Those are just comments, Mr. Chairman. They don't require a response. Thank you.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a small comment to make. It is to the Minister of the Housing Corporation. We are all aware that housing rent is increasing every time we turn around. It doesn't matter whether it is the Housing Corporation staff housing or rental housing. We are always faced with an increase. Because of this, I will be asking the honourable Minister this question: Is it because the federal government is asking for more cutbacks, that this increase is

taking place rapidly? Or, is it because of the shortage of housing? It seems that after the $40 million cut from the federal government, rent for housing has really increased.

We also see a lot of people in public housing units evicted from their houses because they aren't able to pay their rent. We have to go through the hamlet councils in the communities if we are going to go into a public housing unit. What is the reasoning for the monthly increase for the units? Many residents in the communities are not able to keep up with the payment and I can imagine, in the future, this will keep happening. The rent will just keep on increasing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There have been no increases in rent as of today. The proposed new rent scale will come to this House for approval. It has been through extensive consultation at the community level, regional level and MLAs. This government has agreed, so far, to phase that in over three years. The committee is recommending four years. The reason for the rental scale increases...There will be decreases as well for those lower-income people. All rent is based on your ability to pay. In home ownership communities, it is based on 25 per cent of your gross income. In non-home ownership communities there is a false cap. It will be affordable to people. It is based on their ability to pay; a percentage of their wages.

The Member is quite correct when he says that it is based on cutbacks to the federal government as well as housing shortages. If we do not take this artificial cap off, the federal government will levy a penalty against our government's funding, so we would lose money. Also, there is a shortage of 3,600 units in the Northwest Territories. We are 3,600 units short. As long as we continue to allow high-income people to live in public housing, we are saying to those poor people in our communities, the 3,600 people who are waiting for housing, that they can't get into housing because we are going to subsidize high-income people.

I don't think we can afford to do that any longer. We have to encourage those high-income people to vacate public units and move into home ownership and allow social housing units to be available for low-income people who they were designed to serve in the beginning. We are trying to do that in the smoothest possible manner. Thank you.

(Translation) This is just a short statement. Mr. Chairman, we all know how we started off and the fact that the federal government is no longer responsible for housing in the Northwest Territories. When we started getting housing in the Northwest Territories, it was very easy to pay for. At one time, I remember I paid $2 a month for rent. We also were able to get a barrel of fuel a month. They would deliver it to the side of our house and we weren't even asked to pay for it. I know it is quite different now, as opposed to that time. But I am telling the story, although a lot of people know about it.

Utilities cost quite a lot now and it is quite difficult for people who own and rent houses to pay for their utilities. That's the reality in our constituency. We have to represent our constituents and their concerns of today are different from yesterday. It seems the federal government was trying to encourage the Inuit to move into communities. That's how they lured them to larger centres: by having houses which didn't cost enough. In this day and age, we have to pay for everything. It is getting more and more difficult to live in the communities for that reason. That is all I wanted to comment on. This is not exactly a question, so there is no real need for an answer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the Minister's opening statement he mentioned that the corporation has now been operating for 20 years and this is their anniversary. I wanted to wish him happy anniversary.

The thing the Minister didn't announce is that, although we have $49 million this year for housing -- and I was leading up to this yesterday -- we also have $9 million for remote housing programs. I'm just wondering what is happening with this money. Is it going to become part of the $49 million, or is that additional money to put extra houses into the communities?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We're still exploring the possibilities of how the $9 million can be best used. We still have not received final word from the federal government on how we can use it in our existing programs. My understanding, from the dealings of our staff with CMHC, is that it could be streamlined into our program. Also, our government increased our allocation by $17 million for housing. I'm sure the Minister of Finance will be quite anxious to get some of that money back as well.

Thank you, Minister Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Well, perhaps the Minister of Finance doesn't have a housing problem, but I do. I would like to ask of the Minister, in his deliberations with the Minister of Finance, that he try to address some of the concerns that I expressed yesterday.

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Minister Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to assure the Member that if anything is going to happen,

where allocations are going to be changed, beefed up, or whatever, it will all be done in a fair manner. Thank you.

NWT Housing Corporation

Agreed.

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Agreed.

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Agreed.

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Agreed.

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Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

With regard to the numbers, I would think there is a rationale for why the Baffin gets four times more than the Fort Smith region. Does it have to do with transportation?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In 1994-95, the Baffin's allocation was 27 per cent of the units we had. In 1995-96, it is 27 per cent. For the Keewatin, it was 17 per cent in 1994-95 and it is 17 per cent in 1995-96. The Kitikmeot was 14 per cent in 1994-95 and it is 13 per cent in 1995-96. The South Slave was 11 per cent in 1994-95 and it is 11 per cent in 1995-96. The North Slave was 15 per cent in 1994-95 and it is 16 per cent in 1995-96. The western Arctic was 16 per cent in 1994-95 and it is 16 per cent in 1995-96.

The money is allocated by units, not by dollars. Thank you.

Agreed.

---Agreed

With regard to the $49 million, that doesn't include the $9 million for remote housing, right?

No, this is $49 million that I'm requesting this Legislative Assembly to fund the NWT Housing Corporation for capital.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Capital Programs/Financing Programs Summary Schedule

With regard to the senior citizens' home repair program for $200,000, I would like to ask the Minister if that is a fair allocation or are we getting more demands for senior repair programs than the numbers warrant? In the Taloyoak report, the recommendation is that we exempt senior citizens from paying rent only if they are not living in public houses. There may be senior citizens who own their own homes who have to pay extra costs because of the condition of the unit.

I hope that if you are going to recommend something about the exemption of senior citizens and elders, we also make sure there is enough money to provide the necessary repairs to housing for seniors who also might be experiencing hardship because of the conditions of their unit.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know that $200,000 doesn't look like a lot of money for the senior citizens' repair program. Seniors can also get emergency repairs in HIP as well. Seniors are eligible. I agree that we should look after our seniors first, if at all possible and make sure they have proper housing. Thank you.

Most of the problems come through me -- and I appreciate the Minister's help and Tom Beaulieu has been very helpful -- but I sometimes find that the requests I make get changed by the local organizations. I think, in this case, it happened on the reserve. I would like to be informed when those decisions are made so that I don't raise people's expectations that money was identified for their unit and the band decides to put it somewhere else. I have run into those situations.

As long as the corporation informs me, at least I could then tell the client that the money was there for them, but the band decided to use it somewhere else. At least it doesn't make me look bad and I don't give them false expectations.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Any time there are any changes or issues arising in the Member's riding, I'll make sure that Mr. Beaulieu, the district manager, gets in contact with him and keeps him well-informed on all issues. Thank you.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

What is this modernization and improvement for $2.282 million?

Page 03-16.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a cost-shared program, called M and I program. The North Slave district gets $240,000; South Slave district, $250,000; western Arctic district, $467,000; Kitikmeot, $365,000; Keewatin, $385,000; and, the Baffin, $575,000. This is for public housing repair and extraordinary repair and it is cost-shared by CMHC. It will be cost-shared 25 per cent or 50 per cent; it depends.

Maybe I could address this under this section. I know the corporation operates a senior citizens' home in Fort Providence. All the equipment that is there now has been there since the building was built. I'm referring mostly to stoves and fridges.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, this summer we did a paint job, basically an inside face-lift, on the seniors' home in Providence. We have written to CMHC, the owner of the building, to request that we work with them to upgrade that building and solve the problems they have. We did approximately $60,000 worth of work in painting and drywall repairs and some repairs to the flooring. Silverado Painting is going in to finish the painting.

We did work on all 16 units of the seniors' residence in Fort Providence under the M and I program.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Summary