This is page numbers 745 - 772 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some general comments. I do not support this bill and will be voting against it during third reading. I would just like to outline to the committee my reasons for that. I concur with the concerns set out by the Standing Committee on Legislation in their report, but another reason for voting against it is that this, in effect, would become a hidden tax.

The protection of the consumers by the Public Utilities Board is something that benefits all people right now, and it should be a function, I think, of a central government. If the cost of providing this regulation is off-loaded to the Public Utilities Board, then the ratepayers wind up paying an indirect tax. I guess I have to call into question the comment made by the Minister in his opening comments when he says that the extra costs to the ratepayer of enacting this legislation would be more than offset by the benefits of regulation. I find that hard to understand when, right now, the consumer already has the benefit of regulation through the Public Utilities Board and the costs are paid for through their taxes, which is a much more equitable way of financing something that government should be doing.

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to outline what I see are concerns about this legislation and outline why I will not be supporting the legislation on third reading. Thank you.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Dent. General comments. Mr. Whitford.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will also not be supporting this bill, for the reasons I stated previously and, as well, because it is another form of taxing the consumer. In the opinion of the people I represent, we feel it is unfair to people, certainly in tax-based municipalities. We are going to get hit twice with this tax, not only will we be paying when we pay our power bill. It is my understanding that it is going to be attached to each power bill that for the first 700 kilowatts of power used, there will be approximately 35 cents charged. The average bill is two or three times that and, although it is a small amount, it compounds.

Not only that, when larger consumers we depend on for other utilities, for example water for the city, have to pay increased taxes, that will be passed back to the consumer. I feel that the method of supporting and paying for the Public Utilities Board is already there and adequate. It comes out of the general revenues of the Northwest Territories; and it benefits all people, not only those people in tax-based municipalities who are subject to utility bills. I feel it would serve no purpose to try to recover money using this method when it can come in a much simpler form; the way it is currently done. Therefore, when it comes time to vote on it, I will not be supporting it.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Whitford. Are there any general comments, statements or questions about this act? Mr. Ballantyne.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you. Actually, I'm quite amazed that the government is bringing forward this particular bill. The government has allowed the Power Corporation to apply to the Public Utilities Board for a 22 per cent power rate increase, and the government has obviously supported the increases in the rate zones. Every time we turn around, the public is being hit with power rate increases. I'm adamantly opposed to this. Some may say this is small, but they are just added on, one after another, after another. Where does it all end?

I think that perhaps if the government has a little bit of a financial obligation in this area, they should do their homework a little better and make sure that the Power Corporation does everything possible to control its costs. So, I, for one, Mr. Chairman, will not be supporting this particular bill. Thank you.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. We are still on general comments for this bill. Do you want to speak again, Mr. Whitford? Anybody else? No further general comments? If not, there has been a request that we look at the detail.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Clause By Clause

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

So, we will go clause by clause through an Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act. Clause 1.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Yea.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Nay.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

I would like to call that question again, please. Clause 1.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Nay.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Yea.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

I would like to try one more time to be absolutely sure. So clause 1.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Nay.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Yea.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

I am afraid the nays have it. So clause 1 is struck down. I now have to seek some technical advice to see what I do with the rest of it.

I would like to recognize Mr. Pollard.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, may I call for a vote, please?

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

You want a recorded vote?

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Pollard Hay River

A recorded vote would be in order, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Pollard has asked for a recorded vote on clause 2. Clause 1 has already been nayed. Mr. Pollard.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, my request is that there be a recorded vote on clause 1.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 1 has already been dealt with. I already ruled that the nays had it. So the recorded vote has to be on clause 2. Mr. Todd.

Point Of Order

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Just for clarification, we did go before the Standing Committee on Legislation and it recommended, I thought, to support the bill based upon the two amendments they asked us to do. Now the Standing Committee on Legislation Members are naying the bill. I don't understand what is going on here. By resolution, they passed it, the last time I met with the standing committee. Maybe someone could help me out in terms of procedure, being the layman I am, why some aggressive Members of the House have decided to raise their voices louder than those who don't.

I went before the Standing Committee on Legislation and they agreed to support the bill based on the two changes which I put into the bill. What the heck is going on?

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

(Microphones turned off)