Mr. Chairman, Mr. Todd's question doesn't seem to be a normal question in parliamentary procedure. I don't think it even warranted an answer. Perhaps the chairman could tell me what Mr. Todd's point of order was.

I believe I set Mr. Todd straight, Mr. Ballantyne, on the issue he had raised and I believe he is satisfied with my answer. Mr. Nerysoo.

Point Of Order

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On a point of order, I want to challenge your ruling on the matter of the first decision.

Maybe you could state what the issue is that I have to take to the Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, you indicated that the nays had it and yeas were defeated. I believe that the honourable Member requested a recorded vote, so I wanted to challenge the ruling you made, and that Clause 1 had not been agreed to.

I will rise then and report to the Speaker that the chair has been challenged.

---SHORT RECESS

I will call the House back to order. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We were dealing with An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act. We had already proceeded to a clause by clause vote on this bill. After the first clause, I asked for a vote and I wasn't sure whether there were more people in favour or against, so I asked a second time so that I could determine whether there were more numbers or simply more volume from individual Members. I still wasn't absolutely sure, so I asked for the third time for Members to indicate by voice whether they supported this particular clause or not. After the third occasion, I decided that it sounded like more numbers rather than more volume, and it was on that basis that I decided that the clause had been nayed by the Assembly. I was challenged on this analysis of the vote and it has been referred to you, Madam Speaker.

Speaker's Ruling

Thank you. In my observation of committee of the whole, it appears that since we have a consensus government and it wasn't clear to the chair on the vote because of the number of yeas or nays, and according to section 722 of Beauchesne's it states, "At the commencement of the report stage of a bill, the Speaker by virtue of standing order 76(5) may select or combine motions in amendment for debate as is thought fit. At this time, the Speaker may also give notice of those motions which are of procedural concern and ask for guidance on their procedural acceptability."

It is my ruling that it was very unclear to the chair as to whether the nays or the yeas were the majority. Unfortunately, Mr. Chairman, I believe that to give clear direction from the House, a vote should have been taken at that time for the particular clause of that bill. Therefore, I would ask that the committee go back with the bill and to vote accordingly in order to address the bill. Thank you. The House will resolve into committee of the whole with the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis, in the chair.

I would like to call committee of the whole to order. On the instructions of the Speaker, we have been asked to go back to clause 1 and have a recorded vote on this clause. I would like to call clause 1. All those in favour, please rise.

Recorded Vote

Mr. Pollard, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Morin, Mr. Todd, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

All those opposed, please rise.

Mr. Whitford, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Dent, Mr. Ballantyne, Mr. Zoe, Mr. Koe, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Pudluk.

All those abstaining, please rise. Clause 1 has been defeated. On clause 1, there are six in favour and eight against. Clause 1 has been defeated. We are on clause 2 and we have been asked to follow the same procedure. Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Chairman, may I respectfully suggest that we move on to the next item and not deal with any more clauses in the bill. Without clause 1, the bill is dead. Thank you.

I need some direction from the committee as to what you want me to do with this bill. It's your bill. Mr. Pollard.

That's a motion to defer. It's not debatable. Those in favour? Those opposed? The motion is defeated.

---Defeated

Clause 2. I'll try it again. Clause 2.

Nay.

Clause 2 is also defeated. Clause 3.

Nay.

Clause 3 is also defeated. Mr. Kakfwi, are you challenging the chairman on this one? I'm not quite clear. Mr. Kakfwi.