This is page numbers 719 - 751 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will now come back to order. We are waiting for the Minister responsible for DPW, who is on his way in, as I speak. Is the Minister prepared to give his opening remarks on his department?

Department Of Public Works And Services

Introductory Remarks

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to present the Department of Public Works and Services 1994-95 main estimates. The proposed operations and maintenance budget is $127.154 million and 511 person years. This represents a 2.2 per cent funding reduction and a 1.2 per cent PY reduction from 1993-94. In addition to this appropriation, the department manages $71 million through the petroleum products, community granular and public stores revolving funds and the systems and communications charge-back account.

The department's major initiative this year has been to implement the initial phase of the building and learning strategy. As this Assembly knows, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and I have spearheaded the development of the building and learning strategy. This strategy uses GNWT capital projects to train northerners in the building trades. This year, 58 residents in six communities took part in classroom training under the strategy. Of those, 32 went on to take on-the-job training. In addition, 59 residents in seven other communities participated in the construction worker training program which is a joint effort with the NWT Construction Association.

The department will be seeking funding to add five more communities to the building and learning program in 1994-95. They are Baker Lake, Coppermine, Igloolik, Lac La Martre and Fort Providence. In this way, the communities now in the strategy will be equally distributed between the four regions and the three areas south of the lake.

In addition to the building and learning strategy, the government has supported using negotiated contracts to increase the involvement of local businesses and residents on construction projects. Many local development corporations have benefitted from the GNWT using negotiated contracts. They have developed new business skills and gained more local control over community projects. I am confident that this approach has increased the benefits from our construction program to many northerners, who otherwise might not have had such an opportunity.

Construction management responsibility for capital projects has also been decentralized to the regional and area offices. Ten positions have been transferred from Yellowknife. Project managers will become more familiar with the capabilities of community residents and businesses. This will help the department to use more local people on construction projects.

The petroleum products division is now decentralized to Fort Simpson and Rankin Inlet and located in new offices built by local companies. At the Fort Simpson office, all eight employees are from the Fort Simpson area. At the Rankin Inlet office, three employees relocated from Yellowknife, four were hired from the south for three year term positions and 11 are from Rankin Inlet.

The government's decentralization initiative has required new offices in Rankin Inlet, Fort Simpson, Fort Smith, Hay River, Inuvik and Iqaluit and new housing in Iqaluit, Rankin Inlet and Fort Simpson. I am happy to report that all new contracts for offices and housing in these communities were with northern companies.

Mr. Chairman, the department is responsible for selling staff housing under the staff housing strategy. As of February 21, 1994, we had sold 123 houses, with revenues of $10.5 million. GNWT staff purchased 92 houses and the public bought 31 units. Also, 70 sales were pending. Because of this successful first round of sales, Cabinet has directed the department to conduct another round of sales to tenant employees in Level II and III communities, directed that multi-plexes be offered for sale, and set a process for MLA consultation about what to do with any surplus units in their communities.

As part of the staff housing strategy, user-pay for electricity was implemented on August 1, 1993. Employees in GNWT housing now pay directly for these services. User pay for water and sewer services will start on August 1, 1994.

Public Works and Services now has 252 aboriginal employees, representing 40 per cent of all employees. The department's affirmative action training strategy for 1993-94 included cross-cultural training courses, post-secondary education, short-term educational leave, achievement awards and on-the-job training for decentralized positions. In 1994-95, we will continue with the headquarters' aboriginal employees' support group and provide improved career counselling for regional aboriginal employees.

Changes to the tendering methods for 1993-94 fuel resupply to the Baffin, Keewatin and Kitikmeot regions saved approximately $1.5 million. Following the 1993-94 expenditure reduction exercise, Cabinet directed the department to review the pricing structure for petroleum products, particularly capital costs of infrastructure, inventory carrying costs and cross-subsidization between communities. That review will be completed by March 31. Petroleum products will also be replacing its three year community fuel delivery contracts with ten year contracts, each with a five year renewal option. Contractors will then be required to provide garages and fuel delivery vehicles. The longer term commitments provide better economic viability for the contractors.

As committee Members are aware, the business incentive policy is currently undergoing a review and we anticipate some significant improvements to it. The review is being done by the senior management preference committee, which is chaired by Public Works and Services but includes the three major contracting departments as well as Economic Development and Tourism. The SMPC was established in the last rewrite of the policy, approved in June 1992, and has resulted in the senior management of those departments gaining a much better understanding of the problems with administering the policy. A report will be provided to Cabinet by April 1994. Subject to Cabinet agreement, there will be a period of consultation, procedure development and training for both the private and public sector before full implementation in early 1994.

There are significant increases and decreases proposed in our 1994-95 estimates, resulting in a net reduction. One increase relates to new office and residential leases to support decentralization and for the new Legislative Assembly building. Another increase is for maintenance and utility costs for the new Assembly building and for new assets identified in the capital plan. The decreases relate to leases expiring that do not need renewing, to utilities funding from user-pay for electricity, to utilities and maintenance funding because of staff housing sales and to privatizing the publications and production activities.

In 1994-95, the department will complete community transfer agreements for maintenance activities with the hamlets of Holman and Cape Dorset. The Sanikiluaq power plant, the last plant still operated by the department, will be transferred in April to the NWT Power Corporation. Privatization of departmental warehouses will be implemented in 1994-95, subject to Cabinet approval of a plan now being prepared.

In response to a recommendation from SCOF, the department will prepare a plan to transfer the community dust control program to MACA in 1994-95. Mr. Chairman, Public Works and Services has undergone major changes this year. Next year will give us a chance to adjust to those changes. The department will continue to deliver its programs and services in support of overall GNWT priorities and objectives, while maximizing local and northern employment and business opportunities.

Mr. Chairman, that completes my opening remarks. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Morin. The report from the Standing Committee on Finance will be presented by Mr. Ng.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Government Contracts And Local Employment

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee is in favour of initiatives that will maximize opportunities for local employment on government contract work. However, the Department of Public Works and Services must work with other departments to improve the policy and procedures surrounding negotiated contracts, and consider possible alternatives to negotiated contracts. We also look forward to seeing the results of the review of the business incentive policy (BIP), and encourage the government to strengthen BIP -- and, in fact, the entire public tender process -- in order to maximize local

employment. This issue of government contracts is discussed in this report in the section on the Financial Management Board Secretariat.

Privatization Initiatives

Committee Members were glad to see the department's recent privatization initiatives, including the publications and printing division. The committee encourages the department to continue examining possible areas for privatization, such as warehousing and records management.

Specifically, some concern was raised about records management and its apparent disarray. Committee Members expressed frustration and discouragement at the difficulties and delays seen in the reform of this important area. We urge the Minister to address this problem immediately and not to be put off by the apparent magnitude of the task. Even if the government's records must be organized slowly, one year's worth at a time, any initiative in this area will be an improvement. And, if the private sector is more willing to tackle this job immediately, then they should be given that opportunity.

Office Accommodation

The committee expressed concern at the drastic reduction to plans for office accommodation for headquarters employees. Office accommodation standards directly affect the productivity of government employees and we are concerned that these reductions will have an adverse affect on that productivity. This concern was also noted in the Standing Committee on Finance's report on the 1994-95 Capital Estimates.

In addition, committee Members noted during the capital review that by going to public tender rather than over-holding leases, the government could most likely accommodate headquarters personnel much more cost-effectively. The committee recommended, following the capital review, that the department review the Yellowknife office plan and resubmit estimates for office renovations and tenant improvements for 1994-95.

The Department of Public Works and Services provided the committee with another briefing on office accommodation for headquarters personnel during the committee's review of the departmental operations and maintenance budget. The briefing included a description of two different versions of the accommodation plan and the associated costs, but did not include a reassessment of renovations costs based on the current commercial real estate market.

Recommendation 29

The committee recommends that the Department of Public Works and Services develop the office accommodation plan that most effectively and efficiently houses headquarters personnel. The cost-benefit analyses which accompany the plan should be based on a consideration of savings that could be achieved in the current commercial real estate market. This plan, along with the cost-benefit assessment, should be made available to the Standing Committee on Finance prior to review of the department's budget in committee of the whole.

The committee further recommends that the department go to public tender for all aspects of rationalizing office accommodation in Yellowknife, including moving and improvement in addition to the space itself, starting with the 1994-95 fiscal year.

Upcoming Studies

The committee notes the studies forthcoming which relate to this department's mandates, including warehouse privatization, Keewatin resupply and informatics. Committee Members would like the Minister to arrange briefings to the committee when these studies are complete. This will allow the committee to make informed recommendations to the government, based on the results of those studies.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Therefore, I move that the Department of Public Works and Services develop the office accommodation plan that most effectively and efficiently houses headquarters personnel. The cost-benefit analyses which accompany the plan should be based on a consideration of savings that could be achieved in the current commercial real estate market. This plan, along with the cost-benefit assessment, should be made available to the Standing Committee on Finance prior to review of the department's budget in committee of the whole.

The committee further recommends that the department go to public tender for all aspects of rationalizing office accommodation in Yellowknife, including moving and improvement in addition to the space itself, starting with the 1994-95 fiscal year. Thank you.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for Kitikmeot. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. We don't have a quorum for a vote. Sound the bell. We now have a quorum. We have a motion on the floor. The motion was in order. Discussion had taken place. Question had been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? One is opposed. Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do you want me to bring in my witnesses?

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The Minister has requested permission to bring in witnesses to assist him with the matter at hand. Is the committee in agreement?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee is in agreement. Please sit at the witness table. Mr. Minister, would you introduce your witnesses to the committee, please?

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Bob Doherty, deputy minister. To my left is Dave Waddell, the director of finance. Thank you.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Welcome, Mr. Doherty and Mr. Waddell. We are dealing with matters in the main estimate book. It begins on page 10-09. General comments, Mr. Allooloo, Member for Amittuq.

General Comments

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to commend the Minister and his staff for doing a good job in terms of addressing the requirement of the local contractors to negotiate most of the time in the smaller communities that enables the smaller companies to be able to hire local people and to keep the money inside the community. I think they have to be commended for the work that they have done.

Mr. Chairman, the concern I have is in terms of allowing a local preference under the business incentive policy and also the territorial preference that still has to be ironed out, although I know the Minister is working on it to improve the business incentive policy. I would like to suggest that, in order for the companies to be allowed or to be eligible for local preference, the company owners should be on the voters list in that particular community. I would like the Minister and his staff to look at that option to see if that is possible. I know, in some cases, there are certain companies that have local preference in more than one community, and sometimes that creates a problem. Overall, Mr. Chairman, I think that the Minister and his staff are doing generally a great job in this particular area. Thank you.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Allooloo. I will convey that to the Minister. Mr. Minister, would you like to comment on those comments?

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we are in the process of reviewing the business incentive policy, like I said in my opening remarks. Once we get it together, we will be taking it to Cabinet. The department has very good advice and we will look into that. Thank you.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Morin. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to start off by saying, generally, I am quite satisfied with the performance of the Minister and the deputy minister. They are doing a competent job in tough times and a difficult area. I have three specific concerns that I would like to put on the record at this particular time.

One, there has been an ongoing discussion about the public tendering process as opposed to negotiated contracts. I want to, first of all, say here publicly that I am not one of those who is carte blanche against negotiated contracts. I think they definitely have a place, and I think they have an important place as a tool that the government can use. I have a concern, though, in the future that the use may become more widespread. I will go into some of the concerns that I have. It is very obvious that negotiated contracts are filling a need here in the territories. There has been frustration, especially in the smaller communities, that the dollars that are spent on construction are not staying in the community. There has been a concern that outside companies have been taking advantage of whatever construction happens in communities. I think everybody can sympathize with the desire for communities to take advantage of opportunities in their own community, whether those opportunities are business, jobs or an opportunity for companies to start off. I, like any fair minded person, will see that negotiated contracts are playing a role and do have a place.

But, for a moment, I would like to just talk about the public tendering process. It is flawed. There is no perfect system, but it is one that has developed over many years and there are some very important principles that underlie the public tendering process. The first and most obvious one is, there is no doubt in my mind, that you ultimately get the most competitive price by having companies bidding against each other, especially knowledgeable companies that really understand all the ways to perform a service at the best possible cost knowing that they are in competition with some pretty sharp competitors. I don't think there is any argument there. The public tendering process, over the long haul, will save you money.

Another factor, which has given me a bit of difficulty with negotiated contracts, is the whole bonding element. We have spent many years trying to put together a process that protects suppliers and companies in the event that a project goes over budget or bankrupt. I am the first to acknowledge that, not only with negotiated contractors, but there have been our share of failures with the public tendering process too. I don't think we should forget that. What has happened over the years, at least in most cases, is that at least the public tendering process does have some built-in protection to safeguard companies.

Another factor, to get a little bit into the intangibles, is that, over the last 20 years, a viable construction industry has been built in the Northwest Territories, and because most companies can be assured that there will be a public tendering process, they know the rules of the game. As they get more skilled and better at what they are doing, they can start to predict, with some certainty, their future. They can start to make capital acquisitions of equipment. They can start making commitments to office space. They can start making longer time commitments to staff, knowing that there is a very good chance that year in, year out, they are going to have a certain volume of business. So what you do is build stability into the system, and, again, it is part of knowing what the rules of the game are. The problem is that, even though there are advantages to negotiated contracts, there are advantages to other approaches. What it does is take some certainty out of the process, and it makes it more difficult for long-term planning.

Another advantage of the public tendering process is that you have scenarios where a small company from a small community or a large community can grow from a medium-sized regional company and then finally into a territorial-sized company, and you can start building critical mass, start building expertise so that you are able to handle a range of jobs and you start to develop some of the contacts and what have you in various communities. There is no doubt that what has happened is that some individual companies have not taken advantage of local opportunities and haven't taken advantage of local hire or local business opportunities. That has happened and that has given industry, in some quarters, a bad name, and there is a frustration level in communities who are looking for an easy, quicker way to deal with it rather than go through this process, which, in some cases, has not worked.

I think that one thing we have fallen down on over the years in the public tendering process is that we haven't included, in a meaningful enough way, credit for that local spending. I mean, we have done some of it. We have given some credit for a local preference or a regional preference but we haven't really said, okay, if a company sets up a joint venture, for instance, with a local company, that may be worth something. If you hire over this percentage of local labour and you demonstrate at the end that you have, that is worth something. If you have spent this much money in the community, that is worth something. I don't think we have gone far enough in doing that, and I think that if you started to build in all of those factors, it could, at the end of the day, probably accomplish as much toward local involvement as you do with negotiated contracts.

I'll give you some examples of where I see it happening, and I am not doing this now as a criticism of the Minister for using them, because they have served, I think, a valuable purpose. I am looking a little bit into the future of what could happen. What is invariably going to happen is that more and more companies are going to want to have negotiated contracts, and you are going to have more difficult situations to choose from. I will just put down one scenario. Let's say, for instance, you have company A in Iqaluit, company B in Rankin and company C in Whale Cove. They all want to do a negotiated contract on a project in Whale Cove. That is one scenario. Let's say you have a project in Rankin Inlet and you have company A from Iqaluit, company B from Rankin and company C from Whale Cove. Assuming that Whale Cove got the experience on this one, they may want to now bid at the regional centre. Thirdly, you have a project in Iqaluit, again, with the three companies, one from Iqaluit, one from Rankin and one from Whale Cove. The problem is going to be, how do you choose? You say, well, only the one in the community where they reside is allowed to get it. So that means you take away the potential from company C in Whale Cove to grow. If the company in Rankin Inlet cannot bid in Iqaluit, you take away the potential of it to go from a medium-sized company to a larger-sized company.

The danger I see, if you do too many of them, is that you essentially put walls around communities, and what will inevitably happen if you put walls around communities just because the stream of projects in a community is not necessarily consistent enough to sustain companies over the long haul, is make it impossible for smaller companies to grow and would mean that the larger companies would die on the vine. It would seem to me that there is a very good chance

that ten or 15 years down the line, you will be going south for a lot of your contracts.

So I put it forward as a warning, and I have been happy to hear both Mr. Todd and Mr. Morin say that they are not looking at this as the panacea, because it isn't. They are looking at it as a creative tool, which definitely has its place. But I guess I just want to emphasize that when all is said and done, the public tendering process, with some changes, still has proven to be the sort of approach that has the best chance to work in the majority of cases.

There have been criticisms by people, and I have heard a very valid response from the Ministers. Why doesn't anyone suggest something positive? Why does everyone just complain all the time? So I am trying to just throw out some ideas that might or might not be helpful, but perhaps some ways so that along the line, I think that the Ministers are going to have to say, look, these are the rules.

If you have a hundred companies coming at you all ready to negotiate contracts and you try to decide -- you over you and you -- then everybody is going to be right down the Minister's throat at some point. A possibility, adding on to the things I have said earlier, is to say there will be, in the course of the year, a twelve per cent of the budget limit on it. Maybe that is one way of doing it.

The second way is that there might be a limit on the size. Maybe there will be negotiated contracts for contracts up to some figure. I don't know, maybe $1 million. I don't know. It is the concept that I am talking about.

The particular issue I want to leave with the Minister is that negotiated contracts have their place, but I still firmly believe that in the long term, if handled properly, the public tendering process is where I think the majority of the contracts should go.

My second point is on privatization. Privatization is an area which is always a tough area because of what invariably happens with the private sector. In any kind of a government service, you normally have an economical component of it and an uneconomical component of it, and, inevitably, the private sector just wants the economical component, so when you have had a situation where the part that makes money subsidizes the part that doesn't and then the system pays for itself, you turn over part of it to the private sector and you have to pick up the tab for the other part. So, although I agree with privatization, I have also said we have got to be quite careful of how we do it.

There is one area in the government that I would ask the Minister to have a good look at. It seems to me, in this age of technology, that this government is swamped in records and paper. There are offices full of records and paper. There have been a number of initiatives over the years to try to do something about that, for whatever reason, but the government, because of the fact that the government has never considered it a priority, seems almost paralysed to deal with this. I think an objective analysis of the cost savings would show that there could be a pay-back in a relatively short time. This is one area where I would like to re-emphasize what the committee has said. Either deal with it as a government or seriously consider privatizing this area. One or the other. It is quite amazing the tons of paper we have stored. Really, you don't have to do that in the 1990s.

The last comment I have to make to the Minister is about the office space in Yellowknife. When I speak, I'm obviously speaking about my community. I've been involved, one way or another, with the different proposals that have come forward. It was interesting, and the Minister was there, that the discussion in committee on this issue didn't take on a pro or anti-Yellowknife tenor at all. It was the unanimous opinion of the committee that the ultimate decision to provide office space should ensure we get the most efficient use of our space and people.

The feeling was, the last proposal to come forward had compromised some of those efficiencies. So, the Minister was asked to have a good look at some of the previous proposals. I'm not quite sure exactly where the Minister is at this point, but I know that myself and the committee would really like to see an approach that is an improvement on the last one, that would try to maximize the office space with a major view to staff efficiency as well as straight dollars and cents. With that, Mr. Chairman, again, I would like to thank the Minister. I think he and his staff are doing a good job and we wish him the best in the year to come. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. I must remind the committee that, under rule 79, there is a time limit to comments. I was a little generous with Mr. Ballantyne because I was trying to find the rule. There is a ten minute limit, just so you know that I'm not being mean by cutting you off. Mr. Minister, there were several comments in Mr. Ballantyne's remarks, if you would like to respond.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Could I get him to repeat them? Just kidding. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding the negotiated contracts tendering process and the business incentive policy, we are in the process right now of reviewing those. Mike must be reading my mind on the BIP. When that policy was developed, it was to help businesses develop, not to create jobs in the communities. Some of the northern businesses are more guilty than southern businesses. Because they have a BIP, they may win a contract and then they'll bring in a bunch of people from southern Canada to do the work.

The BIP never addressed that issue. The new policy will. It will have more teeth and it will also hopefully address local hiring versus southern hiring, how much investment a person has at the local level compared to the territorial level, and whether it is a joint venture with the south. Other concerns it will address are what real benefit is going to northerners and to the NWT, and where they're paying their taxes, for example. We're looking at all that. Hopefully, in April or May we should have it tighter so we can start consulting with businesses, as well as with MLAs and communities.

Negotiated contracts do serve their purpose. The vast majority of negotiated contracts that Public Works has been involved with have been a great success. We also use project management, and that has also seen a fairly good success rate in most of the communities. I would never go as far as saying that the tendering process would be the only process to use in the future. But, I agree that we shouldn't be doing 50 per cent or 75 per cent of our contracts by negotiated contracts. The majority of them have to go to tender and they are going to tender.

I guess the government does take some risks when they go with negotiated contracts because the bonding is normally waived. Through the tendering process, as well, sometimes the bonding is waived to help northern businesses get started. If you don't take any risks, then people don't move ahead. We take on that risk and so far, we've been fairly lucky. There is never any security in construction. It goes from year to year. You're never guaranteed any contracts so people have to make investments and bid wisely. That's how they get contracts.

Right now, we are working on privatization of records management. Hopefully, there will be recommendations regarding that completed by the fall. I must admit, privatization of this has very low priority to me. There are a lot of things on our plate and it has a very low priority. We will move it up in the priority list; it will be within the first 100, guaranteed. Hopefully, by the fall, we'll have more work completed on that. There are problems we have with records in general, we don't only have to deal with privatization.

I think I've addressed everything. Thank you.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

That addresses my concerns and I thank the Minister. I just have a comment about BIP. I don't know if this has been considered or not, but I just wanted to say it here. I think I brought it to the attention of the Minister already. I heard that one of the concepts that was being considered

was putting a value on supplies that come from the north so that if anything comes from the south, a northern contractor doesn't get a credit for it. I heard that one happened. I will give you a couple of examples where that concerns me. There are many things that you can't get in the north.

Committee Motion 25-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Mr. Minister.