Mr. Chairman, just a comment, initially, on the example that was used regarding the increase to residential charges in Inuvik. The rate would increase from .22 of a cent per litre to .33 of a cent per litre, or a 50 per cent increase in rates. The residential example that was calculated, my assumption is that it would have used the commercial rate as opposed to the residential rate because the residential rate should only go $82.50 per month as opposed to the $125 per month that had been indicated.

Mr. Koe indicated the concern over the impact on consumption that will occur if the rates go up. The consumption will come down substantially and that will have an impact because the utilidor system still needs to be operated for the same amount of money. We would anticipate that is what would happen, although the amount of the change is uncertain. What is interesting, though, in the case of Inuvik is to compare the economic rates for service in Inuvik which right now is at .52 cents of a litre compared to some of the other economic rates, for example in Iqaluit the rate presently is about .95 cents of a litre and Norman Wells is about 1.3 cents per litre. So, in relative terms, the economic rate in Inuvik, even if it was to increase as a result of the reduction in consumption that would come with these policy changes, should still rank somewhere within the range of some of the other similar municipalities.

What we have proposed with Inuvik is, because of the big change in the rates for commercial users in Inuvik, and the fact that, at present, high rates are charged to government and industry users in order to indirectly subsidize and keep rates low to commercial users, in addition to the implementation of these policy changes we've proposed a phasing out of the cross-subsidy. In the process, rather than a sudden increase of the 118 per cent that was indicated within two or three months, this rate would actually be phased in over three increments over the next two fiscal years. The actual sudden impact that commercial users would experience would be minimized as a result of that. The charges that these people would receive would in the end be similar to the charges to commercial consumers in the other tax-based municipalities.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm understanding what is being said with the amendments to the policy concerning the current rates. I understand what is being done as amendments to the policy, but the information sheets that were provided indicated which changes would occur in relation to the commercial areas, such as the co-ops, particularly those co-ops that have hotels. They are combined as both a general store and as a place to stay away from home. More and more hotels are being implemented in the communities, as owned by the co-ops. For instance, we have a number of them in the Baffin region.

The commercial sector have their own houses as well. Many of these businesses are not making a profit. In many instances they are just barely breaking even. This doesn't apply to every business, but this will add further to the bills that they have to pay.

I have a question. You say there will be more uniformity in the payment of the rates in the territories. My question is, I'd like more information. How different are they right now as they stand, first of all? That would be my question to you. Thank you.

(Translation) Perhaps your question, if I may answer it, are that the hamlets and the municipalities differ with every municipality in the territories. Because of that we're trying to make them more uniform. People are paying different rates for the same or similar services for water and sewer delivery, pick-up services, et cetera. They are trying to make this more equal amongst the various communities. Do you understand what I'm saying?

(Translation) Just for clarification, will that apply to all home owners and people in public housing under social housing? Will this apply to home owners who have their own homes? Will this increase for water and sewage services

be applied to home owners and people in general social housing for the services that they will be receiving? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (Translation) This will be affecting home owners. Tenants under housing authorities for the water and sewer services are being provided and paid for by the Housing Association, but the rates that they pay will be slightly increased.

(Translation) Mr. Chairman, I am sure everyone can understand this issue. I was told that this idea has been in place for quite some time now. However, we, the MLAs, who have people to represent, should be involved when important policies such as this are being implemented. Until now, we have had very little involvement. You indicated that this idea has been around for a long time now and you said they would be in effect within 90 days. This is probably a new idea to some communities.

Once this water and sewer services policy is amended, it seems to me that many communities are in agreement, but as representatives of the people here in the House, we haven't really received any feedback from the people. We don't know if they agree or disagree. Because of that, when this is going to be implemented almost immediately, I would first want full consultation with the communities, especially from the regions that I represent, because it will be affecting them in a huge way.

How much time have you given as notice? Have you received quite a response from the communities that you have been in touch with? It is hard to tell, at this time, what they think of this policy amendment. I am aware that the majority of the hamlets will probably support the policy amendment concerning the community services and the slight increase for the villages and the towns. There should be more input and public information being made available before this becomes implemented as a policy. There are many different communities that will have different opinions, but we seem to have given too short a notice to our communities. In the end, it will be us who have to do the explaining.

If you want to amend this policy, it is important that we know about it well in advance so we can inform people in our ridings. They, in turn, will be looking at us for some answers. They will be keeping abreast of the developments on this amendment. Mr. Chairman, this is more of a comment. I would want this better publicized and more consultation with the communities because it is going to have a huge impact on those communities. I am not just trying to disagree with the policy amendments, but I think consultation with the public is very important. I am sure people will have an opinion if it involves any increasing of rates. This was more of a comment rather than a question. I will stop there. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to add to what my colleagues had said regarding consultation. I had mentioned in my Member's statement as well that I don't believe that the department has consulted as thoroughly as they could have. I think they may have done it on a limited basis to some communities and to some Members and some organizations. Although, generally, I agree with the user-pay concept where some of these charges will have to be increased in the immediate future. It will be one of the things that the government will continue to have to take a look at, as long as it is fair and equitable and affordable in these rates being charged to the consumers and the residents in our communities.

I did have a chance to briefly review this policy regarding the impact on water and sewage charges on commercial users that the officials provided to us while I was speaking on it. I would like to thank them for that, but, with all due respect to the staff members who put it together, I believe there are some omissions and some pretty significant ones from this paper that has been provided in my initial review of it. When you look at a community like Rankin Inlet, there are only five or six businesses listed there, and I know there are three hotels, the Northern store and co-op store are not listed in Rankin Inlet. I noticed, in some of the other communities, the Northern stores are listed but their staff housing isn't listed, unless they are lumped together as one under Northern. In others, they are broken out, so there are some inconsistencies in some of the reporting on this rate change analysis that the department has provided. I would like to ask them if they are aware of this, or if there is any particular reason for it. Finally, I noticed, in speaking to my colleague, Mr. Pudluk from Resolute Bay, that their major hotel, Narwhal Arctic Services, isn't listed in this analysis as well. I would like to get some comments from the department on that. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, when I look at this list as well, I think there are some areas which have not been listed. For the specific consumer commercial users that are listed in this particular listing, I am not aware of the details. Mr. Christensen has more information on it.

Mr. Chairman, the source of the document was drawn from all of the municipalities listed. This was the list of commercial consumers that were supplied to us from the municipalities. If there are errors, then we will make every effort to update the list as soon as we can. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If the integrity of this list is in doubt, then aren't all the calculations that the department has put forward regarding the net effect on the government all based on the consumption levels of commercial users in the NWT as a result of this document?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask Mr. Christensen to respond again.

Mr. Chairman, the financial analysis for the subsidy changes were drawn from the actual claims that we paid to municipalities and the detail that came from the claims themselves, in terms of aggregate consumptions. This list was drawn from a separate effort on request to the municipalities.