This is page numbers 1400 - 1440 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What we will also do, Mr. Chairman, is give a copy of the "Educating Our Children" departmental directive on inclusive schooling. What we have indicated in there is that inclusive schooling is a philosophical and practical educational approach which strives to respond to individual student needs and is intended to ensure equal access for all students through educational programs offered in regular classroom settings. We have indicated that inclusive schooling is mandatory within the Northwest Territories school system, subject to the principles, limitations and exceptions that are noted in the policy.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe that is already enshrined in the Constitution of the country. Clause 7. Yes, Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A lot of comments came from my constituency with regard to the concept of inclusive schooling for children. Many support the concept, however, and have come to recognize fairly quickly the lack of resources and feel that inclusion without resources, without support, without teacher preparation time, without commitment, without vision statements, without proper staff development and without flexible curriculum just doesn't seem to work.

As we know, inclusive schooling is an obligation from the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to accommodate children in the regular classrooms. There seems to be a fair amount of designation of children to these classrooms, and there seems to be, at times, a lot of pretence about what's happening with inclusion.

But there are, many times, wide differences in children's needs and the kinds of environments that can address these types of differences. I think inclusive schooling is good for some children, and some parents will probably greatly support it; however, at the same time, I think the opposite is also true.

I think that we must give the option to the parents and to the children because we have noticed that there has been a significant reduction of resources, we have noticed a significant reduction in even funding towards the school boards and it's making it very difficult for the school boards, and the Community education councils to address inclusive schooling. I think that if the Minister's department is sincere with respect to inclusive schooling, they have to make a concerted effort in giving the schools the resources they need to address inclusive schooling. I mean, you can all say everything really nice about inclusive schooling but if you don't give them the funding they need, inclusive schooling is just paying lip service to the residents of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Chairman, I think, if inclusive schooling is going to work, particularly when you are looking at designating children with significant disabilities into regular classrooms in the name of inclusion, I don't believe it will work unless we put resources into these classrooms to support this type of child.

We have to ask ourselves, if we are going to allow inclusive schooling to work, whether or not the class sizes will decrease. We've noticed, over the years, that the class sizes have tremendously increased because of the fact that the funding has been so tight that resources are limited. Therefore, another way for the CECs and the school boards to address that is to increase class sizes even though the policy indicates different.

We have to ask ourselves, will our teachers be trained and prepared for inclusion with regard to addressing disabled children? Will parents be prepared to give the support that's needed? Will there be full-time trained special education assistants to assist students throughout the day, and will there be basic specialist support for classroom teachers? Would all the children be kept up with regard to their educational goals? Will they all be able to determine goals and will teachers be able to support them in attaining those goals?

Some of the questions that came to me with regard to this whole issue of inclusive schooling are, is the department attempting to address inclusive schooling in order to save funding and to provide regular classrooms with the support needed if this is to succeed? I think that's really critical. I think inclusive schooling can only be effective and successful if the schools are going to get the proper support services, and this has to come from the department. It's easy to say to the divisional boards address inclusive schooling, but if you don't give the proper resources, there would be very little meaning and substance to that particular portion of the act.

So I want to indicate to the Minister that there is a grave concern regarding inclusive schooling due to the fact that there is a lack of a resources, a lack of funding to address inclusive schooling. I recognize that the Minister looks at special needs and other areas, but it still fails to address the concerns expressed, particularly from the community of Fort Smith where many people are concerned that they ensure their children have a good education and are given proper resources.

So there are many questions that have to be asked, and I think there are many questions that have to be answered by the department to indicate the measurement of security or sincerity with respect to inclusive schooling in this particular area. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To clause 7. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the comments made by the honourable Member. I think that much of the commitment comes not only from the department but from this Assembly as well, depending on how we vote the resources for investment. Just let me assure the honourable Member and the public of the north that in the last

12 years, since 1983 when we had about $500,000 in the budget, in comparison to now where we have over $10 million, shows the direction that we're going in in this particular area.

The comments that were made by the honourable Member are really a reflection of the concerns generally across the Northwest Territories. The other point we should note is that it's clearly indicated to us about the high needs in the territories and that the only way to resolve it is through the comments made by the honourable Member; that is, that we have to work together. It's not simply a matter of the department telling the boards what to do, but rather to work in conjunction with the boards to help them resolve these issues.

However, not all of these issues require money. It requires, as well, a lot of good planning on the part of the boards. It requires workshops and it requires a willingness on their part to implement the inclusive schooling strategy. I agree with the honourable Member and I appreciate the comments that she's made with regard to this issue.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 7. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We can certainly sit here and gloat about how much we've given to education but at the same time we've got to take into consideration the increase of our population and the number of schools we have created across the Northwest Territories. I know that the Legislative Assembly has been very supportive overall towards the Department of Education over the years. When the Minister indicated from 1983 until now the department's budget going from hundreds of thousands to millions, certainly they've shown some commitment over 12 years but there's been significant growth in population over 12 years.

At the same time, there's also been significant growth --and I'm sure he can look back --in his bureaucracy for delivering these types of programs. Back in 1983, there was probably no such thing as --and I could be corrected --special needs students and disabled students in the system. There were no special needs assistants in the schools. There was little support at that particular level because schools were just then taking into consideration disabled people.

I commend them for that but what I am saying is that in as much as inclusive schooling is in the act, we're indicating in this act that every student is entitled to have access to the education program in a regular instructional setting in a public school or public denomination school in the community in which the student resides. We're indicating that every student has the opportunity, but quality is the question. It's important to maintain that quality of education that we, as northerners, have been proud of. It appears that the lack of financial support certainly has been tighter because of fiscal restraints but, at the same time, has been making a very difficult for the divisional boards, regardless of the good planning they attempt to make with respect to the lack of funding they get from the department.

I look at the 2.5 per cent cut fight across the board on divisional boards and who's to say they don't get more disabled children; that they have an increased need for SNAs or any type of special needs program. What they've got isn't the additional support when you look at the 2.5 per cent that was cut from forced growth.

You can put everything in the act that you want but until you can indicate to the communities that you are going to uphold You know, I guess that's where your proof in the pudding comes from. We can go on and on and state that but what I'm saying from my constituency is that inclusive schooling is still a great concern with the diminishing amount of funding resources being eroded, and it is affecting the quality of education of our students. It's something that I'm sure no Legislative Assembly Member wants to see. Thank you.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 7. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, I don't want to debate with the honourable Member, I think she has a legitimate concern. The investment decisions are made here by all Members of the Assembly. I agree with her and hope that in future other assemblies will be as cognizant and concerned about it as the honourable Member. I think it's critical in making our final decision on the budget.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 7. Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 18th, 1995

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clause 7 of Bill 25 be amended by

(a) striking out "or the student if the student" in proposed paragraph (3)(b) and by substituting "or the student, if the student";

(b) striking out "registered at a" in proposed paragraph (3)(e) and by substituting "registered with a"; and

(c) striking out "Le paragrahe (3)" in the French version of proposed subsection (4) and by substituting "Le paragraphe (3)".

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Merci beaucoup, Monsieur Minister. The motion is in order. To the motion. Okay we'll give the Members a moment to look at the motion. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These are just technical changes because the original wording in the legislation ...There was a technical problem with it.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 7, as amended. Agreed?

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 8 of Bill 25, page 10. Clause 8. Agreed?

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

(Microphone turned off) ...clause 9. Thanks.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Okay. Clause 9. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

I would like some clarification on clause 9 dealing with the processes and who may be designated. Are they talking about professional people, doctors, or just anybody? I need some clarification on who can assess a student.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.