I want to refer back to the item I mentioned earlier, where these people initially took a course and they're looking for work. Is this an agency they could possibly touch base with to see what the potential for work may be?

Mr. Nicholls.

Thank you, Mr. Nicholls. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is with regard to the development impact zone, the $40,000. As of today, we're doing away with regional councils, we're doing away with regional directors, we're trying to be fair to everyone; but in this area, we're talking about one particular area where there still is a development impact zone group. As it sits fight now, there are other regions within the Territories --especially in the Fort Liard area, there's potential for mining development in the North Slave; there is also potential for oil and gas development in the Beaufort Sea, and also the Gwich'in settlement area -- to be fair to all the other groups, it seems like they're only allocating $40,000 to one particular interest group. Are there other resources for other groups to be able to acquire these resources, or is this limited to just one region which there have been development impact zone groups in the past? Over time, they have served their purpose and have moved on. You now have land claim organizations -- such as, in my region, the Inuvialuit, the Gwich'in Tribal Council; in the Sahtu you have land administration bodies such as the Fort Norman Ernie MacDonald Land Corporation, the Deline Land Corporation -- so there are institutions established where the oil companies have to go to get their information. But allowing a separate institute to basically act on its own without really taking in the interests of the landowners,

especially with regard to aboriginal claimant groups, there has to be a change of emphasis by this government that we no longer have special interest groups. If you're going to do something, do it for everybody, but don't just do it for one particular area.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Perhaps I could respond. As I understand it, when there is no activity in certain areas such as in the Beaufort/Delta for some years, the DIZ society that was active in that area, has long since ceased. The only place there was some activity was in the Sahtu, with the Chevron joint venture some years ago. Over the last couple of years, there was renewed interest in doing exploration work. If there are other areas that are interested in setting up DIZ societies then, as a government, we're prepared to do business. If industry is prepared to do the same and the federal government, then we're back in business so to speak. There's no difficulty for us to support the formation of such groups as this.

I see DIZ societies, for instance, as very, very useful for communities, even for land claim organizations. They don't have to hire expensive consultants and lawyers to find information for them. These societies can provide, basically for free, what many agencies and communities now have to pay for. This is provided very inexpensively for this government, as well.

So I like them, and if there is a basis to set up DIZ societies in other communities and regions, I would be prepared to do that. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. That is exactly my point. Because they've had a society in place for a number of years when other areas did not have that opportunity, they have lost out on the opportunity to meet with the oil companies, to be able to lobby companies. Without having a basic arm to link them into the Calgary office or the Yellowknife office, who are we talking to? I have made several attempts over the last year to try and get a study done on oil and gas potential in the Mackenzie Delta region, and on a project which was done in the Sahtu with regard to looking at the potential of a seismic application to the companies in which it was done, through this society, because that was basically what they were there for. But because we do not have a DIZ society in the Mackenzie Delta, as you stated, we are losing out on that potential. Yet someone else, because they have the advantage of another region, is getting something.

So that's where my question comes back to: fairness. My question was that you say that you may be able to look at getting resources for other regions, but all that's in the budget is $40,000 for the one particular society. So it's a question of having the resources and the infrastructure in place to assist you to deal with the lobbying of the oil industry in Calgary; or, having someone identify potential resources in economic development programs to assist them in hiring consultants and things like that, Other regions weren't able to do that because they did not have the infrastructure in place, such as this DIZ society which basically has one person on staff and all he does is lobby for himself, phone the oil companies and basically keep his job in place because he has connections to Calgary which we do not have in the Beaufort-Delta region. We used to; we used to basically be able to have a direct line right to Calgary, but now we don't because the oil and gas took it all. We eliminated the DIZ society because there was no need for it. What I am saying is, how do you see finding resources out of $40,000 to assist the other regions.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Kakfwi.

Madam Chair, if the reason that people aren't taking advantage of opportunities is because DIZ societies don't exist in a certain region, as I said, if we get a proposal and suggestions of interest, we'll fund them even in the interim; if there is sufficient support from the communities of a region and industry to establish these societies, then we're in favour of it. I just said that I see them as very useful vehicles. But we also know that when oil companies are not interested, they're not interested. You could put all your land up for sale, parcels of land, but if they don't bid on them, there's no activity. Basically, some regions have been in that state for a long time. But getting back to the point that the Member makes, yes, it's only $40,000 that's allocated there, because that's all that has been there for some time. But we can reallocate, internally, money to provide for additional DIZ societies if that's what is required. It's more a matter of getting a proposal and responding to it, even in the interim.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Anything further, Mr. Krutko? Go ahead.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Maybe the Minister or the deputy minister could tell me exactly how many other additional resources have been spent in association with this society for meetings in Calgary; lobbying the oil companies; looking at potential proposals for accessing funds through EDA or funds through Economic Development and Tourism; for consultants doing studies with regard to seismic proposals and things like that. Could you tell me how much money has been spent in association with this society, compared to the resources spent in other areas?

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.

Madam Chair, I am not aware that any great amounts of money have been spent just for this one society. As I said, it's sponsored by this government in partnership with the federal government and industry, and this is almost the total allocation that's given for the operation of that society. There may be, on occasion, one or two plane tickets.

People should know, as well, if communities request assistance to meet with oil companies, we would look at it. But there are aboriginal groups who are basically carrying on a private business. They don't want us involved in their business discussions with oil companies, and it's none of our business. They are also in the business of hiring their own staff and accessing their own information. Nobody begrudges them that. I simply make a point that, in the case of the Sahtu, I know that this is a very efficient and simple way of getting basic information to communities, and you don't have to pay a lawyer or a consultant their high hourly fees in order to get basic information; it's available through agencies like this. If we can make them available to more regions, I would be very willing to do it. We could do it for Beaufort/Delta, North Slave, Deh Cho.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My question was, have the governments spent monies for consultants to do work on behalf of the Sahtu DIZ society over the last couple of years. I don't think you answered.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Madam Chair, if there was any money, gift money or whatever you want to call it, I would be interested in finding out about it myself. We could get it for the Member if that was the case.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Steen

Thank you, Madam Chair. My questions are again on the prospectors' assistance program. I would like to know if the grant is divided equally into regions so that all small communities have an opportunity to apply for the grant; or, is it all administered out of Yellowknife and could therefore be used up by Yellowknife before the communities get a chance?

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.

Mr. Nicholls will answer.

Mr. Nicholls.