Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Briefly to respond to the honourable Member with respect to his comments on a community-based justice system, we're fully supportive of that. That's a direction we want to go. He mentioned sending people out on the land to help the community by harvesting on behalf of the community. I think that all falls part and parcel into the community empowerment and wellness initiatives that this whole government is trying to promote. I wouldn't have any arguments on that matter with him.

I think the issue he had raised on the value of RCMP officers, I think we all recognize that; particularly in the smaller communities. There is a potential future problem there, in discussion with some of the senior RCMP officials with respect to their concern about the safety of their members. For single-detachment members, it's no secret that they've mentioned in the past about the possibility of having to look at closing down some of these single-member detachments because of the lack of support mechanisms for their members who are there. There is concern for their safety.

I think one of the things which is a positive step that the Department of Justice and other departments such as MACA have been working on, as I indicated in my opening statement, is the community constable training initiatives; trying to upgrade some of the by-law officer positions we have; trying to develop some of the aboriginal constable components that we have available to us; to try to provide some support to the RCMP members who are in these communities is critical to the overall policing system that we have in place. So I just wanted to point that out to the honourable Member, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, talking about the outpost camps, we have introduced a made-in-the-North approach to alter incarceration that is working, yet we are causing these camps to have to shut their doors and close down. I am talking about the outpost camps for young offenders. There is one in my riding, Mr. Speaker. It is the only outpost camp that is self-supporting in all of Nunavut. The problem seems to be that the occupancy rate is low. Statistics have proven that the young offenders who go to these camps are not repeat offenders. It is something like 10 per cent, whereas in the normal system it is a lot higher. So this made-in-the-North approach is working, yet we seem to be cutting the per them amounts for these camps, forcing these camps to close. Even though there are no people or young offenders staying at the camp, they still have to pay the insurance costs, the O and M to retain the building, at cetera. I know the Minister is just new

in the portfolio and I hope he will review this, It is a very serious matter.

In my region, Mr. Chairman, there are three elderly gentlemen running this camp. They have their families there. They also built an alternate home for maintaining a traditional way of life at the camp. It has proven to be very successful. They are the envy of the people in the Baffin. Yet, because of a lack of the occupancy and having this camp go to a per them rate, they may not be able to operate because the costs will be too much. I would implore the Minister to review this situation to try to have the judicial system in the region put more people in the young offenders' camps so the occupancy rate could go up and the per them rate which is being offered, which is very low, may help them be self-sufficient. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to thank the honourable Member for his concerns. With respect to the placements of whether they are in open or closed custody, that isn't for us to decide. The courts determine that. In the honourable Member's riding, he is referring to an open-custody facility. Although we recognize the value there, we can't continue to core fund these facilities. We are moving towards a per them payment that would recognize the amount of service that is delivered. We are also looking at opening up some of these facilities for adults as well, to try to increase some of the usage. If there are no young offenders in that type of a situation, the adults could be placed in there, provided we could arrange for that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, because I understand the situation with the funding and I appreciate what the Minister has said, what are we going to put in place to make sure that we can refer adults to these camps? The camps weren't set up for adults, so that might entail other things. Based on the per them rate, the only way for these camps to be successful is to have more people staying at the camps. One of the things that made the camp successful is that there would only be a few offenders there and the elders had an opportunity to spend more time with these offenders. That helped them change and find the error of their ways. It is a contradiction, Mr. Chairman. In one way, we want to increase the occupancy by referral, but if we put adults or older teenagers in these camps, it would be very difficult for the elders to work with these offenders. I wonder what type of review the Minister has in mind to make sure that the teaching will get through. As we all know, if you have seven or eight kids and only three people there, it is very difficult to give them the support they need. That is what made this program work. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding that -- if I am incorrect, please correct me -- that facility can only take three clients at a time, whether it is a young offender or an adult. I don't know where his number of 11 people is coming from. Maybe he can clarify that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Picco.

That was my point. Because you are only allowed to have three, based on the per them amount that is going to be offered, it isn't cost efficient for these people to be running the camp. If you increase the number somehow and permit them to take seven or eight, then they would have enough money to run these camps because you have the per them rate. Then they wouldn't be able to do the service they were expected to do because the numbers are higher. So that was my point. Although we have said we are going to go to a per them rate because we can't fund them, it isn't feasible, Mr. Chairman, as the Minister has just pointed out.

Here we have a home-grown, in-the-North approach that is working. It is lowering the incarceration rate and repeat offenders. That is the whole point, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. There was no question. Do you want to respond, Mr. Minister?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the past, this contractor has provided an excellent service to the department. We have been renegotiating a new arrangement with them as it stands now and we will continue to work with them to try to reach a suitable arrangement that won't jeopardize their operation while providing a realistic service to the department, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Picco.

Mr. Chairman, the Minister is correct that the people who are running this camp have had an exemplary working relationship with the judiciary in our region. The staff and the people in the bureaucracy know that. Would the Minister be able to review it again and get back to me? That is a major concern in our region. Like I said, it is the only self-supporting outpost camp in all of Nunavut. It is based on the rate they were getting before. Because of the occupancy, even if they had the three people there, the rate would be too low for them to operate efficiently and support these people. They have even built an alternate house. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will commit to reviewing the situation and advising the Member on it. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments? We have Mr. Steen.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am told that, generally speaking, it is the less severe types of cases. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.