This is page numbers 141 - 156 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was water.

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine, Honourable Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Barnabas, Honourable Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Honourable Samuel Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Honourable Don Morin, Honourable Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Honourable John Todd

God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land, and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 141

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Ng.

Minister's Statement 23-13(4): Weedless Wednesday
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 141

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today is Weedless Wednesday. Every year during National Non-Smoking Week, people are encouraged to give up tobacco for a day on Weedless Wednesday.

We hope that, not only will people give up nicotine for the day, but that they will also take the time to think about how they are harming themselves, their family and their community by smoking. We all know about the negative effects of second hand smoke, and we are all aware of the health costs the system incurs as a result of cigarettes and other types of tobacco.

Some of the trends we see, with regard to tobacco use in the north, are very disturbing. Northerners are some of the heaviest smokers in the country, and some of the heaviest smokers in the north are our young people. The message I want to share with our youth on Weedless Wednesday, is that tobacco is harmful and it is addictive. We need to ensure that everyone understands the links between tobacco and lung disease, cancer, and other diseases.

Mr. Speaker, all of us know someone who has struggled with the burden of trying to quit smoking. Today and everyday, we should take the steps necessary to make sure our young people never start smoking, and we should continue to provide assistance and support to friends and family members who are trying to quit. Mr. Speaker, I encourage all tobacco users to take advantage of Weedless Wednesday. Stopping for one day is the first step towards giving up for good. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 23-13(4): Weedless Wednesday
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 141

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, on January 6, the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Government of Canada and BHP Minerals Canada Ltd., signed an Environmental Agreement for the NWT Diamonds Project. Representatives of the affected Aboriginal communities were active participants in the development of this agreement, which is the first of its kind in the Northwest Territories. It is legally binding and addresses environmental issues raised during the public hearings held in Yellowknife last winter, which are not addressed by the water licence, land leases and other regulatory instruments.

I would like to highlight some of the important aspects of this Environmental Agreement. It establishes an independent monitoring agency to monitor the environmental effects of the NWT diamonds project and the regulatory performance of both governments. The monitoring agency includes four members appointed by the Dogrib Treaty 11 Council, Yellowknives Dene First Nation and Lutselk'e First Nation, Metis Nation and Kitikmeot Inuit Association and three members jointly appointed by the GNWT, federal government and BHP.

The agreement provides for the development of environmental management plans, both during the construction and operational phases of the project. These plans will deal with air quality, wildlife management, traffic management, waste management, reclamation and closure, and environmental monitoring.

These environmental management plans and monitoring programs will be reviewed and approved by government, as well as the monitoring agency. They will ensure that there are no adverse effects to the environment through the life of this project.

The agreement also provides for the protection of archaeological sites and ensures that the traditional knowledge of Aboriginal people will be incorporated into all environmental plans and programs.

The Environmental Agreement requires that BHP provide security deposits totalling $11 million for non-water-related obligations. In addition, there is a financial guarantee of $20 million from the parent company. Furthermore, the water licence requires a security deposit of $21 million. These deposits, which total $52 million, can be used by government if BHP fails to meet its obligations under the Environmental Agreement or water licence.

Mr. Speaker, this agreement, along with the Socio-Economic Agreement signed by this government in October and the Impact Benefits Agreements with the Dogrib Treaty 11 Council, Yellowknives Dene First Nation and Lutselk'e First Nation, set a precedent for future development projects in the

Northwest Territories. They demonstrate this government's commitment to providing economic opportunities for northern residents, while maintaining the environmental quality of our land and waters. Later today, at the appropriate time, I will be tabling the Environmental Agreement. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Ministers' statements. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Minister's Statement 25-13(4): Rent Scale Moratorium
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 142

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to announce an important change of implementation of the social housing rent scale used by local housing organizations in the NWT.

While the rent scale has been successful in encouraging higher income tenants to become more independent through home-ownership, there is a concern about the difficulties lower income working families may still be having with rent payments.

Mr. Speaker, within the context of the overall social policy framework, the Ministers of the social envelope have agreed to work together to bring forward a proposal which will result in two things. First, it will include an equitable and consistent assessment of all income support and subsidy programs, including those for fuel, water and utilities. It will also include a proposed rental structure which provides incentives for low income earners and income support recipients to make productive choices. Officials from the Housing Corporation and Education, Culture and Employment, have already begun work on this strategy, which we will bring back to Cabinet by July 1, 1997.

Mr. Speaker, I have heard the message from the communities and my fellow MLAs that housing support needs to be better coordinated with income support and overall community wellness. I agree and have instructed the Housing Corporation to include this as part of their review.

I look forward later this year to the input from the Members of this Assembly on options which will be developed. Thank you.

Minister's Statement 25-13(4): Rent Scale Moratorium
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

January 21st, 1997

Page 142

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Ministers' statements. I would like to do my ruling today on the point of order raised by Mr. Dent. I want to provide the House with my ruling on that point of order. The point of order raised by Mr. Dent is contained on page 77 of the edited Hansard. Mr. Dent's point of order was based on a comment made by the Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Henry in his Member's Statement also made on November 29th, 1996, and contained on page 58 of the edited Hansard. Mr. Dent's point of order was that Mr. Henry, in his comments, had indicated that he had mislead the public by alleging that the government had taken a particular position on a Draft Constitutional Package for the western Northwest Territories. Mr. Dent also contended, in his point of order, that Mr. Henry had labelled the government irresponsible. It was on these two points that I am basing my ruling.

It was not until the House resumed sitting yesterday, that I provided the opportunity to Mr. Henry to respond to the point of order. Mr. Henry in his comments, which are contained on Page 209 of the unedited Hansard, indicated that his comments were not intended to say the government had endorsed the proposed package. The Member also indicated, in speaking to his point of order, that and I quote, "I did not say the government was irresponsible but instead that, if the government endorsed the current constitutional proposal, that action would be irresponsible."

I reviewed carefully Mr. Dent's interpretation of Mr. Henry's comments, and likewise Mr. Henry's comments and find, as has been the case in other rulings that have been made, that the House, on occasion, may accept two contradictory interpretations of comments made. I refer to Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, 6th edition, Citation 494, and I quote:

"It has been formally ruled by Speakers that statements by Members respecting themselves, and particularly within their own knowledge, must be accepted. It is not unparliamentary temperately to criticize statements made by Members as being contrary to the facts but no imputation of intentional falsehood is permissible. On rare occasions, this may result in the House having to accept two contradictory accounts of the same incident."

Based on my review of the comments made by both Members, I do not find that there is a point of order and I am sure both Members accept and respect each other's interpretation and views on this matter.

Minister's Statement 25-13(4): Rent Scale Moratorium
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 142

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Picco.

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the past 15 months and as per my motion of May 13th, I have been continually pressing the government on disclosure of sole-sourced and negotiated contracts. Mr. Speaker, as I said before, this is not a vendetta or a witch hunt, but a mechanism, as it were, to make the government accountable for public money spent for the public good. Mr. Speaker, as a result of repeated requests, the Chairman of the Financial Management Board has initiated modifications to the production of the quarterly contract report, which has been published for the past year. To date, information contained in the quarterly report has included the contractor name, service provided and the contract cost. I understand that the reports are now being modified to indicate whether contracts are awarded as negotiated, tendered or sole-sourced. It is also, I understand, anticipated that required programming with the computer programs to facilitate this will be completed later this month. Mr. Speaker, needless to say, I am quite pleased by

this development and would like to congratulate the Chairman of the FMBS for initiating this procedure.

-- Applause

Edward Picco Iqaluit

There is a caveat to this, Mr. Speaker. In the meantime, an updated list of negotiated contracts of the first three quarters has been provided to me. Until such time as the report modifications are completed, similar information on sole-sourced contracts cannot be made available without an inordinate amount of time being expended by the staff. Thus, I still wait for the aforementioned computer programmers to develop the program so that the sole-sourced contracts will be similarly treated. Mr. Speaker, the accountability factor, the issuance of knowledge-based sources, the provided logistic, as well as administrative information that is available on the information highway, has finally seen fit to stop at the GNWT. I will continue to monitor these developments and I will be navigating this information highway to occasionally drop in on the sole-sourced and negotiated contracts domestic abodes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today reads, Bring my children home. You and your husband separate and you get legal custody of your two children. You agree that your husband can take the children to his homeland, which is the Czech Republic, for a year to visit his mom, who is sick. After a year is up he refuses to bring your children home. You contact the RCMP, who lay charges of abduction and the only legal standing is in Canada. You contact the politicians to see if they can help, only to be told that it is a civil matter. You write to your children and they say we want to come home. Roberta Vaneltsi is a Gwich'in from Fort McPherson who resides in Whitehorse. She is the daughter of William and Joanne Snowshoe of Fort McPherson.

In 1994, she and her former spouse, Peter Currey, were awarded joint custody of their two children, Oman and Pierre, by the Order of the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories. The Order also contained a special provision to allow Mr. Currey to take his children to the Czech Republic for one year. He was required under Canadian law to return the children to their mother as of July 15th, 1995. He has informed Roberta that he is not intending to bring the children back to Canada. The children are Canadian citizens and Roberta is also a status Indian who has not seen her children for three years. Oman is 11 and Pierre is eight. I would like to note that his birthday is January 20, basically, his birthday was two days ago. He just turned 11.

The Czech Republic does not fully recognize the legal -- under the International Child Abduction act and the Canadian Court Order to the Czech authorities. The Yukon Department of Justice has intervened. Mr. Speaker, can I have unanimous consent to conclude my statement?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do I have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Krutko, you have unanimous consent.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Yukon government, Department of Justice has intervened by implementing a Canadian-wide warrant on Mr. Peter Currey's arrest. They contacted the Czech politicians to intervene and contact Mr. Currey to attempt to ask him to return the children to their mother. Also, Roberta is trying to acquire funds to acquire a lawyer in the Czech Republic to represent her in that country. In the meantime, she is waiting to hear back from the different jurisdictions. She has written letters to the Prime Minister of Canada, acquired letters from all the parties in Ottawa and also from the Yukon government leader. At the opportune time I will ask the Premier and the Minister of Justice a question on this matter.

In closing, if anyone can help make cash contributions to Roberta, they can contact Robert Alexi, at the Gwich'in office in Fort McPherson, (403) 952-2330, or fax him at (403) 952-2112. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Members' statements. Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, honourable Members, yesterday I spoke on the issue of the closure of Delta House. Should I say proposed? Mr. Speaker, Delta House was the result of many concerned citizens of Inuvik and the area. For 20 years it has provided a much needed service to the residents of the Inuvik region. Mr. Speaker, as I stated yesterday, I am very concerned with the proposed closure of this facility, especially when we look at the statistics that come from the area, of drugs and alcohol. Mr. Speaker, in the Northwest Territories, we consume alcohol at a very high rate compared to the rest of Canada. The people that do drink, 15 years and over, that drink five or more drinks when they do sit down for a drink, is 25 percent, compared to the rest of Canada which is 8.8 percent.

When we take this into consideration, I am concerned that we would be considering a reduction in funding in this area. When research shows for every dollar we spend on chemical addictions, we save $2 to $10 in health care costs. Mr. Speaker, yesterday we heard the Premier say, effective leadership sometimes means bringing change and making hard decisions. Decisions, that in the short term, may seem to hurt more than they help, but in the long run, will change lives for the better. Mr. Speaker, the same could be said, that decisions made in the short term could have long lasting negative impacts. I believe that we, as Members of this Assembly, need to be sure that the decisions we make are truly going to have a long lasting, positive impact. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.

Civil Servants Affected By Division
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 144

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to commend the government for its recent work on our response to the NIC report, Footprints in the Snow 2. In our last sitting, I

pressed for assurances that the government reply would contain statements of support for civil servants affected by division. Draft versions of the document were circulated to us shortly before Christmas, and I was glad to see my concerns had been adequately addressed. The final version of the report was released a couple of weeks ago, the statements of support were adopted unchanged. Mr. Speaker, this government is now on record saying all civil servants in the eastern Arctic should be automatically transferred to the Nunavut government upon division, with no changes to the terms and conditions of employment. It has also said the Nunavut government should give hiring priority to qualified headquarters staff who will lose their jobs during the creation of the new territory.

Finally, this government has said it should work with the interim commissioner of Nunavut to create a staff transition plan as well as protocols for dealing with labour relations and personnel issues. These statements are reasonable, fair, and firm. They address the issues that are close to me and many of my constituents. They are consistent with the points I argued during our last sitting. As a side note, I would like to thank the Chairman of the Division Secretariat for sending an e-mail message to all government employees outlining sections of the Footprints 2 response that deal with the civil service. The briefing went out early in the new year, several days before the report was released. Steps like this are important at a time when government workers face uncertainty in job security due to deficit reduction and division. It shows we do not take staff for granted, and will do our best to inform them of developments at the earliest possible opportunity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Civil Servants Affected By Division
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 144

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Members' statements. Mr. O'Brien.

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is with regret and sadness that I announce the sudden death of Mr. Jasper Gibbons, of Arviat. Mr. Gibbons was working in Baker Lake as an airport mechanic. He passed away last evening. My sincere condolences to his wife Rosie, the family, friends. Mr. Speaker, Jasper was not only a constituent, but also a good friend of mine. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Role Of The GNWT In Monitoring NWT Water Quality
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 144

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the last year, I have made a number of statements in this House regarding the issue of water, things like the Northern Basin River study and most recently the effects of high water, contributed to in a major way by the Bennett Dam. In the

course of becoming involved in this particular issue, I have become concerned about the role the GNWT plays in how our waters are regulated, monitored and cared for.

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of bodies, mainly within the federal government, which meet to discuss issues related to

NWT waters. However, the Government of the Northwest Territories is usually not represented. We rely, it seems, on federal DIAND staff to protect our interests. Even when there is a seat available for the GNWT on some of the technical committees, we still tend to rely on DIAND to protect our interests.

Mr. Speaker, I see two major problems with relying on the federal department to take care of our waters. First, the waters are important to all northerners, and policies and decisions made surrounding the water should be made based on the direction of the NWT government, who are elected to take care of the people's interests.

Secondly, the department currently looking after our interests, DIAND, is actively cutting its resources in this area. My understanding is, they used to contribute about $750,000 a year to the water survey people. This has been cut by half, with more possible cuts coming. In addition, when you add these cuts to the cuts made by NTPC no longer funding the monitoring stations, the overall service provided by water survey has been cut in the neighbourhood of 35 to 50 percent.

The water survey offices, the people at the grass roots who deal with this issue, do the monitoring, work in the communities, have themselves been affected. There have been two offices closed Canada-wide. One of them was in Fort Smith. In addition to these, further cuts, I understand, are projected for the communities that still have these services, places like Simpson, Inuvik, and Yellowknife.

Mr. Speaker, I spoke yesterday on the problems of the Bennett Dam facing the people of Thebacha and the western Arctic. The GNWT cannot continue to rely on the federal government to take care of our water and our interests. As a government, we need to be directly involved in issues relating to water and be an active voice on behalf of all the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Role Of The GNWT In Monitoring NWT Water Quality
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 144

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.