Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I humbly apologize for taking Ed's time, but I wish he would listen because I already said thank you for listening to me and I did not want to proceed. Thank you.

Thank you. I have Mr. Steen and Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Steen.

Thank you. We have all agreed earlier that the Minister will respond after each and every Member who have not spoken have spoken. I believe Mrs. Groenewegen has not spoken, and she will be the last person to speak under the general comments. More than once I indicated to you Members who have not spoken to signify and they have not signified, so some Members have repeated their general comments. So I will recognize Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you. I will now recognize Mr. Todd, to try and respond to many of the questions that came out. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am assuming that after I conclude my comments that we will be able to move to the Executive's opening remarks. Is that correct? I want a ruling on that before I start. Is that correct?

Thank you. When we have the direction from the committee of the whole to proceed with the Department of the Executive you will be given the time to make opening remarks, either the appropriate Minister, I believe he will be Mr. Premier. Mr. Todd.

The reason I make this comments, I believe Mr. O'Brien has not had an opportunity to make a comment to the budget and was frantically waving. I am assisting him with the process so we can look forward to his enlightening dissertation on the budget.

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien, I would like to apologize. You were invisible at the time I was asking. Mr. O'Brien.

I guess it must be all the weight I am losing since I have had this flu for the last four or five days. I think finally, Mr. Todd and I have something in common, we both have the flu. At any rate, I believe at this point in time, I tried to get your attention, Mr. Chairman, to speak. Unfortunately you missed my signal. I will forego my comments and will take it up later in the line by line and allow the time for Mr. Todd to continue with his comments. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Thank you for being understanding. Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will try to conclude my comments as quickly as possible so we can get on with the line by line and opening comments for the Premier and the Executive.

Let me deal with Mr. Steen first of all, if I may. His opening quote was the budget reductions are necessary. We all agree with that. There is no question that somebody had to do something. We chose to do something. In a perfect world, you die and go to heaven. The reality is this is not a perfect world and we are not going to satisfy all of the people all of the time but we are going to satisfy some of the people some of the time. Fundamentally, I believe that what we did, and I said this yesterday, but I will try to keep it as short as I can. We tried to redistribute as best we can to those who have the least from those who have the most. Some of the Members here have spoken out against that. I will address that in a moment.

Mr. Steen's concern with respect to the new model of government, the implication that we are going to design the new model of government is incorrect. What in fact we are doing is looking at the Nunavut Footprints in the Snow 2 model. We have an obligation to seek the federal government and NTI's response. We have an obligation to reach some consensus because that is the criteria that was set for this commission and for our participation, to reach some consensus on what kind of model is, one efficient, two affordable. So I would not like to give anybody any impression that we are going spend an inordinate amount of time to develop new models. We are going to take what is out there, listen to the comments that come forward by the two other ligated, legal parties to the process, and try to put together what I call a pre-implementation division plan. There is no intent of the government or this ministry to impose any government on anybody. But there clearly is a requirement to develop some pre-implementation, so therefore we can sit at the table and determine how we are going to proceed with the costing, and the negotiations that are necessary with the federal government, to see if they are prepared to pay the cost.

In simple language, Mr. Chairman, that is where it is at. There is no intent, let me repeat, to develop a new model. It is our intent to build on what is there, what it efficient, affordable and to move forward with our partners in trying to put a pre-implementation strategy in place.

On the job creation component that you talked about, I agree that there is not a great deal of new initiatives in this budget that cost money, because there is no money. I mean, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. I sit around this table and listen to some of you dissing yourself on this budget because now it is publicly convenient and yet you know damn well, pardon my language, that part of our problem is the $40 million growth in the social envelope. There are no large sums of money for new initiatives. But there is a will and a determination on the part of the Premier and the Cabinet to try to move forward in the federal government on some job strategies, particularly in this potential highway infrastructure fund that we hear is being talked about in Ottawa.

There is no large pot of money out there to create a whole bunch of new initiatives. I am just trying to sustain the system. As I said yesterday, so that the essentials that our constituency needs, health care, education, a decent job if we can create it, are there. There is no luxury on the fiscal side. If I sound a little aggressive on that, I am. There is no easy answer to job creation. Job creation, I said last year in the budget and I said this year in the budget, has to be in partnership with the private sector. We can no longer be the engine of the economy. It just simply is not there because sufficient dollars are just not there.

So, we need to develop a strategy aggressively that is going to create some job opportunities and some economic well being for our people in conjunction with the federal government and to some extent the partnership concept that we have with respect to the private sector. I believe that we will be able to move quickly on that and I am optimistic that in conjunction with the committees and discussion with the Ordinary Members that within the next 90 days to 120 days we will have a strategy in place and hopefully we will have been able to identify the sources of funding that are required.

On the other two questions, with respect to Mr. Steen's concerns on the million dollars, that is the supplementary appropriation. It will be identified. It is for discussions in the self-government. So it will be there. In this budget it is in the supplementary.

On his comments, with respect to Mr. Martin's process for funding the two new governments, I do not have the formula. What I have, is assurance from Mr. Martin that there will be a broad base representation at the table to develop two new formula agreements east and west. I think I said in the budget address and I will repeat it for clarity purposes. In the eastern Arctic, it will be the Nunavut Tungavik Incorporated, the interim commissioner. In the western Arctic, it will be the Government of the Northwest Territories and provision has been made for representation of western interest who will be selected through the consortium of interests that are developing the western constitutional process. I think that what we have there, is a fairly broad-based security blanket, if you want for both parties that one is not doing what the other one does not know and we will all pull together on our pilgrimage to Ottawa to determine appropriate funding formulas and the level of funding of formulas that is necessary. The fundamental issue in the financing of the two new territories, is my belief as a Finance Minister, is in the incremental side and you cannot determine, and I will defy anybody in this House to show me how you can determine what the incremental costs are until you determine what the basic new core infrastructure of government is going to be, east and west. And that is what we are trying to move forward on and the Premier has drafted a letter, I believe to Mr. Irwin, and has spoken to others about the need to reach quickly a consensus of what kind of government we are going to have east and west so we can set the dollars to it.

Mr. Henry, I appreciate the fact that his opening comments, and I appreciate his comments on the surplus as that in a sense we have to be careful on the term surplus. It is a projected surplus. It is a small $9 million. If we reach it, it is based on our ability to meet the targets we met and is based upon ensuring that there is no major catastrophe out there. Nobody can predict the future. So I appreciate the support and the caution as it relates to the term surplus. Perhaps I should have used another term. I know it would be fair to say we have not moved as quickly as we should on the northern job strategy and I apologize for the fact that we have not tabled in this House the affirmative action policy. They are clearly inter-related and I make a commitment today as the Premier did earlier, that we will bring forward both of these initiatives with the hope of some healthy debate and some direction to be given, so we can move much more aggressively on trying to accomplish both these things. One a job strategy and two greater participation by aboriginal northerners in the civil service and outside of it. Job strategy cannot be just left to the government. We simply can no longer be, as I said to the point of boredom, the engine of the economy.

I also agree with the cuts in capital spending and I said it in the budget. For one thing, a cut in the capital spending is a one term deal. It does not make fundamental change to the way in which government is done and the way in which government is costed. So I agree with Mr. Henry, Mr. Ootes and others who have said we cannot continue to cut the capital spending, and it is our intention to listen to that advice. I have some concern that a debate raised by some, Mr. Steen raised it and Mr. Henry has raised it and some others, with respect to looking at the social envelope in isolation. The root causes associated with the increase in the social envelope. Burgeoning population as we have said, overcrowding in our houses, outside of these affluent centres, Iqaluit, Rankin Inlet, Yellowknife, Hay River, Fort Smith. Burgeoning populations, burgeoning populations. And we need to deal with the root causes of that. We have not, and I challenge you again, have not dealt with that in this House for that last 15 months, in public debate. We have all talked about it privately, but we have not and I have spoke many times to many Members about this issue. I think it is an important one, and I am glad it is come to light and is coming to light and people want to discuss it now.

But you cannot say that you cannot look at the social envelope increases in isolation on some of these more difficult complicated issues out there and one of we way is population explosion and the impact it has on it. It is also important to say we have not put significant dollars back into social envelope. What we have tried to do is give them the minimum to sustain the system. To get the essentials out there, whether it is in housing, whether it is, as my friend Mr. Erasmus says, in education or for that matter, the difficult task that the Minister of Health is going to have when he has to address some of the choices he has had to make to meet the targets that are set before him.

Mr. Henry also made some comment about, I think the reference was something on the budget, your inability.....

Mr. Todd. I am wondering, should I allow the Minister because he is responding to several of the Members, but I would like to trade the situation of Mr. Todd, a Member of committee of the whole thereby requires the same treatment as any other Member. If you wish to continue, you need the consent of the membership. Mr. Todd.

Well, I do not particularly care. If you want me to respond to the Members I will, Mr. Chairperson, and if not, we can just move on to the Executive. It is up to the Members.

Do we agree to allow Mr. Todd to respond to Members, to many of the questions that came up? Agreed. Thank you. Carry on, Mr. Todd.

I think I would like to use the word, Mr. Henry implied they were gagged on the budget. I would to point out that this Legislative Assembly has greater participation than any other Legislative Assembly in North America. I mean we could take the conventional European or Canadian approach, keep it all secret and dump it in the House and do battle. The reality is that, right or wrong, we all had a hand in this budget. Yes, there were differences of opinion. I acknowledge that but we all had a hand in this budget. Let us have the courage of our convictions and say

that. Some of you have and I applaud you for it, but we all had a hand in the budget, and while it may not be a perfect system, I would suggest to you it is a darn site better than most that we have in the rest of North America. As a matter of fact, I think we are the envy to some extent of other jurisdictions.

Mr. Henry again, I am just trying to make my notes here and I think it is an important issue, had some concerns with respect to division, and in particular with the language address in my reply in my budget yesterday on how we are going to deal with our employees. I think it is important to point out that once the interim commissioner is appointed he will have the legislative and legal authority to enter into agreements on behalf of the people of Nunavut. It is not that I am trying to avoid the issue. I am just trying to set the tone, if you want for the protocol agreement, that I said in the budget that I said we would enter into with the interim commissioner, to move quickly. We assure our employees that have been with us, some here by birth, some here by choice, who have been with us for a long time, to buy some security to them. I am very much aware of the concern raised by Mr. Henry, but I think it is important to point out that in the end it will be discussions with the interim commissioner.

Mr. Chairman, I do not know whether I answered all the questions that were asked but I hope I have given the Members some overall indication of our response to the concerns that they have raised and I would suggest that, if I may be so bold, we move on to addressing the first item on the departmental order for review and that is the Executive. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. The Chair was given the direction of membership that once Mr. Todd has responded to, not necessarily every question, responded to Members that we shall move on to reviewing of the Executive. Should we? Mr. Erasmus.

Mr. Chairman, I was wondering if it would be appropriate to deal with the motion and the government operations committee, at this point?

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus is seeking the concurrence of Members to deal with his motion. Agreed? Agreed, Mr. Erasmus. Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move, seconded by the Member for Yellowknife South that the Standing Committee of Government Operation recommends that the Legislative Assembly not consider the budgets of Health and Social Services and Education, Culture and Employment until the government tables the proposed 1997-98 budgets for those departments with financial detail to the task level.

Further the Standing Committee recommends that the Legislative Assembly not consider the budget of the NWT Housing Corporation, until the government tables the Corporation's proposed 1997-98 budget with financial detail to the division level. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. I am informed there is no need for a seconder. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour please signify. Down. Opposed. The motion is carried. Do we have the concurrence of the committee that we will now proceed to the Department of the Executive. Agreed. Thank you. I would now like to recognize the Premier of this government who is the Minister responsible. Mr. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am hear today to discuss with you, the Department of the Executives 1997-98 main estimates. These estimates are built upon the departments 1996-97 main estimates and incorporated the recommendations made by the Standing Committee on Infrastructure. Mr. Chairman, the main estimates you have before you reflect the priorities and strategies of this government. The department has streamlined its operations, has assumed new functions to better co-ordinate important government initiatives. It has divested itself of functions not directly related to its core responsibilities. Overall, the Department of the Executive has divided into three activities: Administration of the Commissioner's Office, the Ministers' offices and the Cabinet Secretariat. This represents 72 positions and a budget allocation of $9,766 thousand. In addition to these core responsibilities as part of this dismantling of the Department of Safety and Public Services, the Public Utilities Board has recently been transferred to the Department of the Executive. The Public Utilities Board is budgeted for four positions and $482 thousand which represents no increases over the boards 1996/97 main estimates. The Department of the Executive has no capital expenditures.

Mr. Chairman, the Department of the Executive has set a course for the future, and we are holding to that course. To illustrate that point, I wold like to take a few moments to advise you on the progress made by the department in addressing some of the objectives set out in the results statement section of the 1996-97 main estimates.

First, the department committed to focus it resources on providing support to the Premier and Cabinet, in coordinating the implementation of Cabinet direction. To this end, the department has eliminated, the executive regional offices, transferred all government liaison officer functions to the respected hamlets and consolidated the Ottawa office within the department to provide a more focused approach to relations within the governments.

Second, as promised in last year's main estimates, the personnel secretariat has been fully integrated into the department of the executive, cost savings have been realized and the departments have been empowered to make and made accountable for implementing government hiring policies.

Third, the department now holds the responsibility within this government to co-ordinate the GNWT's planning and involvement in the creating of two new territories. Efforts are being made to ensure that a balanced and realistic approach is being taken in the key areas of financing, asset, and liability allocation, legal and legislative matters, and government design for both Nunavut and the western territory.

Finally, Mr. Chairman, the department has successfully reviewed the multi-lateral approach to the creation of Nunavut. Working in collaboration with the federal government, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated and other Members of coordinating committee of officials on Nunavut we have made progress toward the creation of a new government for Nunavut. Mr. Chairman, given our financial targets and the focus of this department, I believe that the 1997-98 main estimates is the best approach to the job we have before us. We are on target to accomplish what we set out for ourselves at the beginning of this fiscal year. I have no doubt, next year will be challenging, but I am confident that we can accomplish what we have committed to do. Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening remark. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. The committee that has reviewed this particular department will have an opening remark, I believe, is Mr. Henry, on behalf of the infrastructure. Mr. Henry.