This is page numbers 87 - 170 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 104

John Todd Keewatin Central

I think you have to be a little historical in its perspective when you talk about the capital planning process. You have to look back to a number of years ago, prior to this government and the previous governments, as to how that was done. It was basically done by departments, and Cabinet made most of the decisions. They made some arrangement with a few Members, I think it would be fair to say that is the way it took place. For some of us who are seasoned political watchers, we know that is the way it took place.

The previous Premier, to her credit, Nellie Cournoyea came forward with - while it may not be an ideal situation, it did embrace more people in the process - where she asked individual communities to determine their appropriate needs and their priorities accordingly, and to discuss these with the local representative MLAs. That process then came into the system five or six years ago and was put into the planning process.

Under Mr. Morin, the current Premier, we embraced a new committee system which enhanced the participation and increasing of the circle of participants in the planning for capital dollars. We work with committees to determine appropriate priorities; where our money should be spent, through the envelopes and through the different committees that were put in place. That situation, while not ideal, is certainly far better than it was in previous regimes. I fundamentally believe, there is transparency in the system. If you go to the actual basic level of public government at the settlement council, hamlet council and village council level and say to those institutions, along with the local representative, myself for Keewatin Central, my colleague from Inuvik and ask them to participate in what the priorities are and what the needs are to forward that into the Premier's office. We collate it, put it into the system and it comes back out to committees. We duke it out in committees and at the end of the day we vet it in this House and vote accordingly. Maybe not a perfect situation, but it is certainly better than it was before. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 104

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 104

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Once this plan is established and you have an up-to-date five-year capital plan that is reviewed by all parties involved, how do changes in this capital plan occur? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 104

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 104

John Todd Keewatin Central

I think it is important to point out that I did miss one small, minor detail, and that is the capital plan. It really has to be built around the fiscal resources we give to it which I determine as the Finance Minister based on the overall budget. That is an important issue. Capital plan has gone from we talked about it for some time now - $180 million to $200 million to $130 million. There is a great deal more pressure on the capital plan than there was in previous years because everybody wants everything, et cetera. Changes in the capital plan are done, as my colleague is suggesting, significant shifts in capital money within the capital plan? Maybe I can get some clarity on that and I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, if I may, that you would not penalize my colleague with respect to questions. If I could have a little more clarity on what he means exactly. If he means significant capital shifts or does he mean emergencies or burned down schools? What exactly does he mean?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 104

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

October 22nd, 1997

Page 104

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Referring to a capital plan that has been reviewed and looked at, what changes can occur? And how do they occur? Whether it be from a fire or if a community decides that it has a project it wants to put forward. How does this capital plan change? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 104

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 104

John Todd Keewatin Central

One of the things we instituted, through the Premier's office in the capital planning process, was to give as much maximum flexibility at the community level as possible. If a community wants to go from a road to an arena, that is their choice. We have said, rightly or wrongly, that accountability and responsibility lies at the community level. This is one example. The changes could happen there because we have mandated and given the responsibility at the basic community and political level. That is one way it could change.

A school burns, it is obvious you have to build it again. You go out there and you try to get as much insurance money as you can, and of course, we have a million dollar deductible in this government, so that is all part of that factor. Fiscal resources change capital planning. If things go well or if things go bad there are a variety of factors, Mr. Chairman, that can effect the capital plan. The fundamental is, if you get input at the local level which includes the MLA, who establishes the priorities of the community and it comes into the system we hope, I cannot quantify unless my honourable colleague has some examples, that 95 to 99 percent of that stays there. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 104

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 104

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Any changes to the capital plan would happen with the consultation of the community involved and the Member representing that

community? When would this consultation happen? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

John Todd Keewatin Central

If memory serves me correctly, and of course I could be wrong, but I believe that I have to advise if there are any shifts in capital to the standing committees. I believe we have a process, which is another transient process in place that if there is a shift, I have to advise the standing committees. I believe I also have to do that if memory serves me correctly. I would hope that if there are some shifts in the capital planning, that the Minister responsible for that advises the MLA and the community at large, what has happened. If the community decides to make some changes, I would hope they would involve the MLA. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have heard of the capital planning process and a lot of it depends on the funding and fiscal situation of the government. We have recently heard of possible alternate funding sources, public/private partnerships. How would that increase or encourage projects to be moved forward in the capital plan? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

John Todd Keewatin Central

I think what we have been trying to examine as a government, is first of all we have recognized that over the last two years we have taken roughly about $100 million of the capital plan. That is a significant amount of dollars because we do not have the dollars and can no longer put to building public infrastructure that is desperately required for the schools, hospitals, that I am sure my colleague is leading up to, or roads. The fact of the matter is $100 million less is being spent on infrastructure. I have taken upon myself, with the support of the Cabinet and the Premier, to look at what other provincial jurisdictions are doing creatively to find ways and means to bring back the level of capital spending that we have been accustomed to over the last ten years.

You have to pay for that no matter how you do it. It has to be all within the fiscal framework of this government and meet the deficit elimination legislation this House passed, et cetera. One of the means that I have been advocating, and you have heard me speak about on a number of occasions, is, the public/private partnerships where we find a combination of both private money and public money to bring forward some of the projects that were on the plan before and no longer are. I am hopeful that, by the middle of November, we will be clear on what the policy should be. I obviously have to seek committee input to it and, of course, Cabinet approval. Once that is done then we would be analyzing what, if anything, we could do in relationship to this new policy and this new approach to some of the capital spending. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Along with the capital plan comes a lot of controversy when we speak of how that money is spent or how contracts are tendered. We have heard recently in the House about the amounts when you total all of these up. It is a substantial amount of the contracts that are either negotiated, sole-sourced or put forward in RFPs. Can the Minister inform us as to the conception of RFPs if, when they were first brought in, were they designed to come up with a plan and then tenders were to be released? Is that the first stage of RFPs? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

John Todd Keewatin Central

I do not know the answer, but if I could give you my interpretation of what I think RFPs are, as I tried to when Mr. Henry or somebody questioned me earlier. I fundamentally believe that RFPs are the ways and means in which to find entrepreneurial input into creative solutions as to how we should solve some of our problems, whether it is building roads, building hospitals, et cetera. I do not think it is anything else. I know there is a concern out there by a small majority of the business community. It is a legitimate concern. We have to try and answer that. I think I said that earlier on today. We are going to try to do that. It will probably become more so when it comes to public/private partnerships. All we are trying to do is to try to maximize government dollars to get the infrastructure required into the constituencies we all represent. That is the objective. How we get there at this stage of the game, there could be a variety of ways. It does not necessarily always have to be by the public tender process. If we had left the darn public tender process in place over the last ten or 15 years, how many aboriginal organizations would be in the private sector now? I have sat back here for 30 years and watched a minority group of non-aboriginal businesses take all the business and all the money. You have to find creative ways. You have to make political decisions to find a balance within the economic constituency. RFP may be one way. Negotiated contracts is another way. Public tenders are another. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. That was three questions. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Chairman advise me as to how many questions I have left?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Mr. Roland, that was a question. Mr. Roland, question number seven.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 105

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For a while there I thought my honourable colleague from Nunakput was corrupted by Cabinet. Mr. Chairman, I apologize for that remark. It is unbecoming of me. I am sorry. Mr. Chairman, maybe the Minister can help clear the air surrounding RFPs because there seems to be a link. When an RFP goes out, there is not a definite criteria to be met, it seems. Once an RFP is selected, it is not guaranteed that the price brought forward is the one because there is a bit of negotiation back and forth to finalize the process. Maybe, the Minister can clear this up by saying is there a connection between RFPs and can they be considered in partial at least as a negotiated contract because there is some work or is the price that is given at the time of the RFP, is that the price that is selected? Is the price firm once the RFP is accepted?