This is page numbers 87 - 170 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Are there any further questions of Minister Todd? There being no further questions, is the committee agreed that we will move on to the next Minister on the schedule? Agreed. Thank you. And that Minister is Mr. Kakfwi, Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. Are there any questions for Mr. Kakfwi? Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, my question will be brief. I want to know if the Minister and his department have been considering options such as putting in place legislation for the exportation of diamonds?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. The federal government, as you know, has ownership and jurisdiction over minerals and they are now preparing amendments to the Canada and Mining Regulations. My view that this will hopefully lead to a clarification on what exactly Canada's position is in regard to a mining and production sale marketing of diamonds. The Government of the Northwest Territories does not have any means of passing legislation for the export of minerals. We are trying to engage the federal government in trying to clarify by what means they can take a position in regard to the diamond industry with BHP as to basically whether or not diamonds can be just taken out of the ground, and with a cursory review by the federal government, then flown out of the country for sale, for marketing or whether the Government of Canada will ask for a little more than that. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just like to recognize my two daughters up there, Meeka and Shannon.

--Applause.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Welcome to the Assembly. Any further questions, Mr. Steen? Thank you. The next person I have on the list is Mr. Henry.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Following up on Mr. Steen's comments, I will also have a couple of questions on diamonds. The socio-economic agreement, this document was negotiated and signed by the Government of the Northwest Territories, Mr. Irwin at the time representing DIAND and BHP. This agreement spoke to the benefits that could accrue to northerners during the construction and the operation phase of the mine. My question to the Minster, is this the extent that the northerners can hope to benefit from the northern natural resource? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, when the federal government announced the terms and conditions under which they would be prepared to give a licence to BHP, the socio-economic agreement was the main instrument that they offered to provide benefits to people of the north in regard to the establishment of this mine, the construction of it and getting to operation of this mine. As a government, we raised the issue of once the diamonds are out of the ground, and they start to move towards the market, so to speak, what are the possible economic benefits that we could negotiate from that phase. The message from the federal government was that will be dealt with later. There are too many unknowns about that. So we have been waiting rather patiently, not entirely in the loop, while the federal government contemplated what the position should be. It is my view that the federal government has to come clear very soon about what is the position of the Canadian government in regard to the diamonds, once the rough diamonds are presentable by the producers. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Henry.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Has the Minister given any thought to educating more federal Ministers on the opportunities that Canada is going to miss out on, if this new diamond industry is not given the profile it deserves at the national level? I was astonished at the lack of basic knowledge among federal MPs that I talked to on this national topic. As it is Canada that will lose out of this royalty regime if it is not handled from Canada's interest first. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 117

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. As a Minister I have become increasingly concerned that the federal government has yet to state a clear position to Canadians, to the public and certainly to this government on what its policy is in regard to diamonds. One of the things that need to be clarified, for instance, is in many African countries, they do ask that the rough diamonds be valuated, sorted for valuation purposes most of the time off-site and that some of the diamonds, not all of them, are available for sale in the

country. In some countries they also take some of the diamonds in kind, as royalty payments. This maximizes the economic benefits to the country and to the people in the vicinity. We are not exactly comfortable with the notion that perhaps there is a possibility that Canada may very well, for lack of attention and diligence in this issue, see Canadian diamonds, northern diamonds, flown direct to London and Antwerp. Rough diamonds that would then be sorted and sold in another country other than here. We have written to the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs and articulated that very concern and have asked if we can and we will meet with her on Monday. We will raise the concern and suggest some ways to remedy the situation if there is in fact no work being done to ensure that maximum economic benefits are exploited from the production of diamonds in this country. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 118

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Henry.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 118

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have talked a number of times in the House regarding the Wildlife Act and in particular the hunting regulations. I note in schedule C of the hunting regulations that there were provisions for people to join the RCMP or armed forces who were eligible for a general hunting licence to not lose their eligibility if their duties involved being out of the territories for more than five years. My question to the Minister is, could he have his officials look at that particular part of the Act from the viewpoint of rewriting a regulation which would permit Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Department of National Defence personnel when posted to the Northwest Territories, that some consideration be given to make that coincide with the schedule C that I mentioned? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 118

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 118

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We have received requests from the RCMP and the Armed Forces for us to consider that. At this time we have moved forward with some amendments to the Wildlife Act regulations, specific amendments to the Wildlife Act other than those we have done. Because of the workload demanded, the legislative agenda, that is sort of ahead of us; it does not appear possible to make any headway in changing the Wildlife Act itself. That was the assessment made by the department about a month ago when we last talked to the legislative division. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 118

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Henry.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 118

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I may have inadvertently said the Wildlife Act, I believe this is in the regulations which would make it easier for the Minister or department personnel to look at. Rather than having the Minister respond to it again, if he would maybe look at it just from that perspective if it was a ministerial prerogative to change it within regulations. My final question to the Minister is on the funds and programs that the Minister administers through the various loans available in the Northwest Territories. I think it is fair to say that all communities in the Northwest Territories have suffered greatly from the cutbacks and downsizing we have experienced. In my community there has certainly been a large number of government layoffs; there is a large number of bankruptcies, there is a phenomenal amount of real estate for sale and there is a lot of uncertainty out there. What I would like is some comments from the Minister and a commitment to look at reclassifying Yellowknife for a year or two years. For example, that it be classified as a level two community or to make those programs more available because of the hardship that the economy of Yellowknife is going through, as are other communities. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 118

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

October 23rd, 1997

Page 118

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, the City of Yellowknife is also like a mining capital of the Northwest Territories. It also is the capital. It is, by definition, a bit of an anomaly. It also happens to be the biggest community, and it does enjoy an economic status unlike any other. It is difficult to be categorical about it. I do know that all of us in Cabinet are acutely aware of the difficulties within the city in the last couple of years. Most of the staff cuts have been at headquarters, have been in Yellowknife. There is a large vacancy, many houses and lots on sale in the city. Whether or not that warrants redefining it as a level two or level three community is a question I could put to my department and ask if that is an avenue that should be taken to help offset some of the economic difficulties and setbacks that the city has suffered in the last couple of years. I would put a more general question to my staff, which is what are the ways in which this government could be more supportive of the city. Keeping in mind, we have to be fair to the smaller communities, and keeping in mind there is only so many resources available to us. I would be prepared to do that if we could grant hunting to people of the RCMP and Armed Forces through mere changes to the regulations, I would ask that question and get back to the Member on that as well. It seems to me it is a bit more fundamental than that. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 118

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. The next person I have on the list is Mr. Rabesca.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 118

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. During the times of cutbacks, staff reductions and reorganizing of departments, could the Minister tell us in your own words how you feel regarding the combining of the three departments you represent? Has this exercise proven to be more efficient and financially sound compared to the previous department? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 118

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Mr. Kakfwi.