Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The pigs that the Member is talking about are domestic animals. They are raised domestically. The abattoir in Hay River was built in part to look at the viability of raising pigs and slaughtering them there for sale to people in the north. That has not worked out very well, and I think that was set up a little before my time. We are now trying to suggest and work with the Member for Hay River on seeing if some entrepreneurial would come forward with a hands-on proposal on how they can make economic use of this abattoir. The muskox are wild animals. They live a couple of thousand miles north of here. They are not immediately accessible, but they are animals that live in herds. They are a little more manageable in the sense they can be harvested in a way that can still comply with the rules of federal inspectors. The question of whether this department would throw money to curb the population of muskox, if the Inuvialuit game council and the Nunavut Wildlife Management board had such suggestions, as a board they have some authority in this area and would be prepared to look at what is the best management plan for these animals. If it was an acceptable proposition and supported by the respective wildlife boards, then as a Minister, I would have to look at it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my final question is in regard to the meat processing plant in Hay River. Mr. Chairman, I believe it was last summer I had an opportunity to tour this plant and it looked portable to me. I am aware that the owners of Canadian Reindeer in Tuktoyaktuk are looking for a meat processing plant. I am wondering if the department would consider contacting these people and see if they cannot transport that processing plant to Tuktoyaktuk and turn it over to Canadian Reindeer. Thank you.

Thank you. The abattoir is not a portable facility. It was never built with that in mind. It is built into the ground and is no more mobile than this legislative building is. As we have said earlier, if there are some viable suggestions made by the Inuvialuit and people from the Beaufort, in particular about the muskox and ways in which we can help to make good economic use of that resource, and there is equipment and infrastructure required to make it economically viable, I am more than happy to look at it. The Northwest Territories Development Corporation is now stabilized. We will now be asking them to come up with some various suggestions on the different regions and communities on what we can do, what type of money we need in order to support them in creating economic opportunities and jobs. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The question I want to ask the Minister is in regard to the question I asked the Premier in regard to finding new ways to stimulate the different regional economies like we all live in different geographical areas. We have different terrain, different types of environments that we have to live in. I think we have to start structuring our economic development programs to fit around those particular regions. Every region may be different in any one particular way, regardless if its geography, in regard to

terrain, in regard to the environment. I think we have to start assisting the areas of the economy where we see we can get the biggest bang for our buck, especially in relation to the renewable resource area in regard to harvesters of wild meat, fish and timber and looking at the potential we have in regard to tourism, by developing an association with the communities and the regions to develop an economic business plan, along with the residents of those particular regions so we can identify the individuals, the people that these programs will be structured towards. I would like to ask the Minister in regard to his department and what has been done to date to ensure that has taken place and is going to. What is being done in his department to ensure this takes place. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the benefits of not being a business person is that as a Minister I take the view that if it does not make any sense to me, then it probably does not make any sense to most people, especially in the smaller communities. If it does not become readily clear to me how things are useful, then it is probably the same in the minds of most people. That is one of the things I do not see as a liability. I also have the benefit of the advice and support of the Premier and the Minister of Finance through the Cabinet Committee on the economy. We have undertaken a very systematic approach to setting up this department, to getting ourselves organized so we can be useful to communities and regions.

We are now in the position where we can actually go and meet with the regional leaders, with community leaders and be able to sit down, for a day or two through workshops, through planning conferences and meetings to come up with some suggestions. Some plan on how we can develop, enhance, support existing economic activities and create new ones.

We are now in a position where we can go, on request into the different regions and communities to do just that. It has taken about a year and a half to come to this position. The Northwest Territories Development Corporation, for instance, as I have said, was not in a position to do much for any particular community. Earlier they have managed to address each of their subsidiaries, to shore up their operations and to minimize the losses they were suffering. They are now in a position where they can, with some confidence, travel with us, or travel by themselves, to offer assistance, particularly to level two and level three communities.

We have moved a lot of money into the regions. Most communities and regions do not have to deal with Yellowknife in trying to access grants and access loans. It is only the larger loans that are now being dealt with in Yellowknife, through the Business Credit Corporation. So, in many ways, we have worked hard to do what we can to move towards community empowerment, to decentralizing. Mostly just to getting organized, getting our shop in order so we can be of some support and assistance to communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My other question is in relation to the program areas, especially in regard to Business Credit Corporation and its investments. I believe the Business Credit Corporation has to spread its wings out and start investing some of those dollars into smaller level two, level three communities to ensure that those businesses also have the same accessibility to that fund. It seemed like there are a lot of investment dollars spent in the larger centres where you have a lot of apartment buildings, retail stores, things like that, which are already in place. I think that in order for the smaller communities, level two, level three communities to grow, they also have to have the same ability and access to that program to ensure that they also are able to be assisted through that agency. So I would like to ask the Minister, what has been done to ensure that the Business Credit Corporation seriously looks at applications and whatnot that do come forth from the level two, level three communities? Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I am not sure of the exact amount, but the Business Credit Corporation, I believe, deals with only loan applications in excess of $250,000. Everything else below is done on behalf of the Business Credit Corporation by our regional superintendents. So the regional superintendents have that authority now to deal with applications for loans under those amounts.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My other question has to do with the whole idea of grants and contributions that are made to communities in regard to small business loans and things like that. In my riding, they have received some $140,000 for three communities of which $60,000 went to Aklavik, $20,000 to Tsiigehtchic and $60,000 to Fort McPherson. But I think in order to stimulate the economy you have to invest more than just buying outboard motors and equipment. I think you also have to look at infrastructure that will go along with any business that you are trying to start out. Also, a management plan placed, so that a person knows where you are going to be in five years. We give you money for something and at the end of the day we have to seriously look at the way we distribute money for grants and whatnot to ensure that it is a long-term investment. That you do not just invest on an as needed basis but look at it as a long-term investment.

At the end of the day, how many jobs are you going to generate? Also, will that person be in business in a number of years? So, I think that has to be taken into account and there has to be more money put into these communities and invested in those individuals who want to be entrepreneurs. But the amount of grants they are receiving is so limited they cannot really get off the ground. It is just enough to buy an item like a sewing machine, a motor or whatever. But it is not enough to be able to market your product or basically to carry out your business in regard to the whole idea of having to develop a plan so that you know that the product you produce, that you have the right to financial information in regard to how you are going to market it, and also that you have the strategy in regard to how do you market yourself and your business. So I think that has to be taken into account whenever these grants are given. Thank you.

Yes, thank you. The government's Agenda for Change is something that I believe is very well reflected in this department. We have, for instance, set up a community economic development section within the department that is tasked with looking at ways in which we can help create economic development at the community level and give support and advice to communities, plus, follow up to businesses that start up. What you would call the after-care part. In many communities, for instance, we have people who are already involved in what we would see as economic initiatives, such as sewing, making other types of products, fishing and hunting. But what is not available to these people is advice on how they can make it more profitable for themselves. As a department, for us to look at ways in which we can ensure these people always get a fair price for their products, that they do not sell moccasins one day for $25 and another time for $100, that there is some reliable source, somebody that is going to buy it and be there, when they produce the products.

Every type of activity that is happening in the more isolated and remote communities are things that we are setting up to become more able to work with to make sure they become more viable initiatives for the individuals that are actually engaged in them at this time. We are setting up more, what you call, community futures boards, so that in regions that did not have them before, now have boards being set up that will process loan applications. We are setting up, so that people from the small communities who actually apply for grants and contributions have more ready access to the people right in the community or the regions. We are looking at ways of trying to enhance the amount of money that is available, as well, to all the communities and regions. Thank you.

I would like to be able to retain the rest of my questions and pass it on to Mrs. Groenewegen at this time.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it was very reassuring to hear the Minister inform my colleague from Nunakput that our abattoir is in fact not portable, and it will not be going anywhere. I suggest Mr. Steen, bring his reindeer to Hay River before we take the abattoir to Tuktoyaktuk.

Mr. Chairman, as you are aware, Hay River is a level one community, and I just wanted to respond to a comment that the Minister made in the House yesterday when he referred to Hay River as a thriving, entrepreneurial community. At that time I thanked the Minister for his kinds words and, indeed, Hay River does have a very diverse economy, but when I heard my colleague from Yellowknife South talking about the possibility of having Yellowknife downgraded to a level two or three community, I have to take this opportunity to jump in and say that, although the economic base in Hay River is quite diversified, there are many industries in that town which, without some even small level or degree of government support, are not going to be viable and may find themselves on the ropes. I refer to industries such as manufacturing, forestry, commercial fishing, construction, all of these areas, even the egg production facilities in Hay River, all of these industries that I have listed are reliant, to some extent, on the actions that this government takes and on the kinds of purchases that they make. So although Hay River does not like to spend a lot of time, shall we say, bemoaning our state; at the same time we try to be resourceful and look for new ways of doing things. I do not want to give anybody the wrong impression that there are not industries that would be significantly negatively impacted without some degree of government support. I am glad that the Minister referred to his department's need to enhance and support existing economic activities, as well as spending money on spawning new business.

With that, I would just like to ask the Minister if the closure of the Hay River Abattoir, and the fact that Hay River is a level one community did come to bear in that decision with the Northwest Territories Development Corporation refocussing, and so on, if our level one status was an issue in that decision? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Yes, thank you. Just to say that if Hay River and Yellowknife no longer want to be level one communities, then why would we have level two? The Northwest Territories Development Corporation was primarily set up to create jobs and economic opportunities in areas where neither the bank or private business would dare to venture. It is set up with the explicit view that they are prepared to invest in business initiatives and economic initiatives that would create jobs even if it meant operating at a loss, as long as the loss was a manageable loss. The government, through the Northwest Territories Development Corporation, was prepared to manage that. The primary purpose is to create activities and initiatives in remote outlying communities where there is a desperate need for jobs and business opportunities.

By definition, you would think that would leave out at least Yellowknife and Hay River. I am getting concerned here. I mean, we cannot all be equally hard-done-by. My instructions to the Northwest Territories Development Corporation is to gear up and be prepared to look at the communities, the outlying remote communities, the level two's and level three's as their primary target for work over the next year. Thank you.