The Member for Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Krutko, you have unanimous consent.
Debates of Oct. 24th, 1997
Topics
Member's Statement 30-13(5): Keewatin Resupply Initiative
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 177
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Member's Statement 30-13(5): Keewatin Resupply Initiative
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 177
![David Krutko](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/13-david-krutko/fd5ac5ad10773e0bcd68ed06fd53da83.jpg)
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Air freight is costly when it comes to building supplies and other large items. This is something that the government should keep in mind when reviewing plans for construction projects.
Mr. Speaker, in our present economic times, we have had to make a lot of cuts and a lot of hard decisions building the pipelines versus proposed air fare freight and the cost to our government. Northern Transportation Company Limited presently holds a contract for fuel resupply to the Keewatin and the eastern Arctic. They have worked with this government to cut costs and have developed a new marine resupply structure that will further lower costs to the consumer.
The residents in the communities of the Arctic are satisfied with the present system, Mr. Speaker. All we can do is return to an old item and continue to debate it in this House. If something is not broken, why fix it? Mr. Speaker, because I am not satisfied with the answers that I have received in the past, I must return to this question and the reasons behind the government's decision to pursue the tanker delivery in regard to the eastern Arctic. In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to state the passing of my aunt, Bertha MacLaren, on Wednesday at 10:30 p.m., the 22nd of October in Langley, BC. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Member's Statement 30-13(5): Keewatin Resupply Initiative
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 178
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.
Return To Oral Question 2-13: Environmental Liiability Site Inventory
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 178
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
2-13(5): Environmental Liability Site Inventory
Return To Oral Question 2-13: Environmental Liiability Site Inventory
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 178
John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Return to oral question asked by Mr. Picco on October 21, 1997, regarding Environmental Liability Site Inventory.
The report provided to the Standing Committee on Government Operations listed sites on the Commissioner's land that might have a potential environmental liability to the Government of the Northwest Territories associated with the use of the land. The report also indicated that there might be a federal and/or joint responsibility for a portion of the potential environmental liabilities. The reason for this is that some of the sites were transferred to the territorial government by the federal government over the years, as program responsibility was transferred.
We are not in a position to pursue this matter with the federal government at this time. We must first identify those sites that were transferred from the federal government by checking historical records and verifying title documents. Site audits would then be required in order to evaluate the potential liabilities. As you are aware, these types of audits are very costly, and we do not have the resources available to conduct them at this time. Without taking these steps there would be no basis for negotiation with the federal government. As resources permit, our government will be pursuing the issue of environmental liabilities and will be approaching the federal government as appropriate. Thank you.
Return To Oral Question 2-13: Environmental Liiability Site Inventory
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 178
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.
Return To Oral Question 22-13(5): Aurora Fund Eligibility
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 178
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Return to an oral question asked by Mr. Picco on October 22nd, in relation to the Aurora Fund.
There is no legal barrier to a loan being made by the Aurora Fund to an ordinary Member, Minister, or to a corporation in which she or he has an interest, so long as the Member or Minister is not an officer or director of the Aurora Fund.
The conflict guidelines in the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act place the onus on the Member or Minister to disclose his or her business interests. There is no onus on the Aurora Fund to safeguard the Member or the Minister from placing himself or herself in a conflict of interest.
If a conflict was apparent the board would no doubt give it due consideration.
Return To Oral Question 22-13(5): Aurora Fund Eligibility
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 178
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 178
![Jane Groenewegen](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/13-jane-groenewegen/2acfed35ff877d98310bef57c5710cde.jpg)
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I take pleasure today in recognizing Pat Thomas, NWTTA president and former constituent. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 178
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Before we go to oral questions, we will take 15-minute break.
--Break
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 178
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The House will come back to order. Before we get into oral questions, I would like to provide my ruling on a point of order raised by the Member for Kivallivik, Mr. O'Brien, on October 22, 1997. The point of order that Mr. O'Brien raised was under rule 23(1) and I quote that rule: "in debate a Member will be called to order by the Speaker, if the Member imputes false or hidden motives to another Member". The point of order was raised by Mr. O'Brien and is contained on pages 55 and 56 of the unedited Hansard.
Mr. O'Brien raised his point of order in response to the following statement made by the Honourable Goo Arlooktoo, in answering an oral question that had been posed by Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Arlooktoo, in his reply, to a supplementary question, indicated the following and I quote, "There were an adequate number of meetings held of the Steering Committee which the Member chaired of which I understand, the Member also missed several meetings that were very crucial and important". Mr. O'Brien then raised his point of order and stated the following and I quote: "Mr. Speaker, I take exception to the Minister's comments that I, as Chair of the committee, missed several meetings. That is utter nonsense. This is a false statement, and I ask him to retract. Thank you."
Before proceeding with the ruling, I must bring to the Members' attention that the words, false statement and misrepresent have been ruled unparliamentary language, and I urge Members to observe this fact. In the case before us, the rule that Mr. O'Brien cited to raise his point of order was not infringed. I can find no imputation or false or hidden motives in Mr. Arlooktoo's remarks in question. I submit that Mr. O'Brien would have probably raised a point of order under rule 23(j), which states: "charges another Member with uttering a deliberate falsehood".
It is not the responsibility of the Speaker to decide if the account of a situation by one Member is correct versus another Member's interpretation or understanding of a particular situation. I offer citation 494 from Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Form, 6th edition, and I quote: "It has been formally ruled by Speakers that statements by Members respecting themselves and particularly within their own knowledge must be accepted. It is not unparliamentary temperately to criticize statements made by Members as being contrary to the facts, but no imputation of intentional falsehood is permissible. On rare occasions, this may result in the House having to accept two contradictory accounts of the same incident".
As provided for in our rules and further confirmed by citation 494, a Member's statement must be accepted on face value. I trust that no Member in the House would intentionally make any statement that would tend to mislead the House.
Therefore, in this case, I must rule that Mr. O'Brien does not have a point of order and further that this House is prepared to accept more than one account of the same incident in keeping with Parliamentary tradition. In future I would hope that all honourable Members will be more selective in their choice of words, so as to avoid similar, unnecessary occurrences. Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Krutko.
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 179
![David Krutko](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/13-david-krutko/fd5ac5ad10773e0bcd68ed06fd53da83.jpg)
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Public Works. It is in regard to my opening statement in regard to the Keewatin resupply. Mr. Speaker, my question is, the present delivery of fuel and cargo is done by a northern company. I am concerned that if the government pursues the tanker delivery policy that the contract for resupply could not be done by a northern company and would have to be awarded to a southern company. Can the Minister tell the House if there are any northern companies that have tankers that can be used to delivery fuel at the present time?
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
October 23rd, 1997
Page 179
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Arlooktoo.
Return To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 179
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe this is a question that I answered very early this morning if the Member checks Hansard. It is important to remember, once again, that the present carrier of choice that NTCL has enjoyed was introduced in 1985 by the government then, for a period of eight years. The intention then was to assist the company in making sure that they were the only ones that got the contract and give them a chance to become viable. The agreement in 1985 was that this preferential policy would go on for eight years. That was to end in 1993. In the past few years, the government has made moves to make these types of contracts more competitive because everybody agrees, I believe, that the way the present contract is given in the Keewatin is not a competitive process. So that is what we are doing. We are levelling the playing field so that it does make it possible to get a more competitive price, and all the information we have suggests that there are other interested parties, including other first rate corporations that are ready to put forward proposals if they are given the chance, as with NTCL. Thank you.
Return To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 179
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 179
![David Krutko](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/13-david-krutko/fd5ac5ad10773e0bcd68ed06fd53da83.jpg)
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will have to rephrase the question or make it a little simpler so that the Minister can understand. The question was, can the Minister tell the House are there any northern companies that have tankers that can be used to deliver fuel at the present time?
Supplementary To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 179
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Arlooktoo.
Further Return To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 179
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not trying to avoid the question, but I think that is kind of beside the point. For example, the Northern Transportation Company Limited was awarded a three year, $90 million contract for the eastern Arctic sealift this past year, and I recall very clearly, the signing ceremony that we had in Iqaluit. It was not because the Northern Transportation Company Limited necessarily had any tankers. I do not believe they do. Because what they were able to do is to put a proposal forward in partnership and in procuring tankers out in the global market and use that to their advantage. That is the way I believe all the tanker contracts are done, with these partnerships. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 179
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 179
![David Krutko](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/13-david-krutko/fd5ac5ad10773e0bcd68ed06fd53da83.jpg)
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell the House if a study of the implications of this decision has been completed as to how other communities will be affected in regard to this decision?
Supplementary To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 179
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Arlooktoo.
Further Return To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 179
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have very clear evidence at this point of very significant long term savings for all the communities in the Keewatin region and can look forward to many years of lower gasoline prices
for the hunters and lower fuel prices for the home owners in the region. I think more significant than lower fuel prices for the government in general because in the end the government is the major consumer of these fuel products. We do have very clear evidence that there will be significant savings for the affected communities.
Further Return To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 180
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Final Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 180
![David Krutko](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/13-david-krutko/fd5ac5ad10773e0bcd68ed06fd53da83.jpg)
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell the House in regard to the cost savings to all northerners, not just one particular region, will there be efforts made in a similar notion to all other regions and communities in the Northwest Territories by way of this endeavour which will have an implication on the cost of fuel to all communities? Will there be savings across the board to all communities in regard to fuel prices from one region to the other?
Supplementary To Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Question 25-13(5): Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 180
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Arlooktoo.