Debates of Feb. 25th, 1997

This is page numbers 849 - 877 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present
Item 1: Prayer
Minister Absent From House
Division Meetings In Holman Island
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Extension Of Canadian Infrastructure Works Program
Return To Written Question 11-13(4): Community Libraries
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Recommendation That Funding Be Allocated To An Fas/fae Education/training Module
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have been very careful when talking about the School Achievement Indicators Program, to say that it does not indicate very much more than give us a snapshot of broad performance and indicate if we may have a need to strengthen our curriculum broadly across the Territories to address what may be a problem. I think the Member is right, we have to be very cautious with how any sort of test result is used. That is why I am much more comfortable saying the divisional education councils and the superintendents are the ones who are responsible for assessing performance on an ongoing basis and ensuring students in the Northwest Territories are achieving at the levels expected by the curriculum we have set.

The School Achievement Indicators Program is only one small part of the information we have. We do not react just to that part, we use it for what it is, a tool we use to assess how our students across the Territories are doing. I do not think anyone in the department or the ministry forgets that it does not tell how an individual is performing or how one school may be performing in relation to another. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Educational development. Mr. Henry.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the Minister for that. It certainly would alleviate my concern to the question I raised in his comments and I do believe he did allude to it previously and it did not strike home until now, that individual superintendents can advise students in a particular school or a particular district how they are doing. So I thank him for that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We have Mr. Picco and Mr. Erasmus. We are on page 9-20 of Education, Culture and Employment, educational development. Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to go back to the regional librarian positions with a few more questions I did not have a chance to ask the Minister. I guess we should back up and look at the history of the regional librarian positions. The positions were created because there was a need in the regions for a provider and co-ordinator of all the services that could not be offered by community libraries. The library headquarters in Hay River could not meet the needs adequately both due to distance and not knowing the communities intimately. My question to the Minister is who will provide that co-ordination? He had said it was going to be the superintendents of ECE. I think the superintendents for ECE are quite busy, as demonstrated by their meeting here this week. Is there going to be extra funding available in the department of ECE to provide the ongoing support to the community libraries that the regional librarian was supporting?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Member is right in that our regional superintendents are busy people. More and more demands are being placed upon all of our government staff in these difficult fiscal times because we have had to reduce the total number of staff we have. They have demonstrated in other regions the ability to support library services. As I have indicated to the Member previously, if we had an unlimited supply of money we would probably not be making this kind of move but given the fiscal situation, it is a response to the total amount the department has to spend and we have balanced that off against what is seen as an acceptable level of service we have been able to demonstrate in other regions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Minister keeps telling me the Baffin region and the Keewatin region are the only regions left having regional librarians and the other regions have done very well without the regional librarians. Maybe the Minister could tell me, for example in the Inuvik region, how many community libraries does the Inuvik region or the superintendent for ECE co-ordinate? In the Fort Smith region, how many community libraries does the ECE superintendent co-ordinate? I know in our region there are four, there is another one up and coming, that is five communities being co-ordinated. In the Keewatin region, I believe there are three or four more communities that regional librarian is co-ordinating. I do not think you can compare apples and oranges, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Baffin region has six, the Keewatin region has three, Kitikmeot has two, the Inuvik region has three, the Fort Smith region has five.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, when you look at just the Baffin region, for example, those six communities are co-ordinated out of Iqaluit anywhere between 1,500 flying miles from the community. On the one hand, the Minister's department is saying the people of the Northwest Territories do not have adequate skills to participate in the technological revolution, and on the other hand, it wants to equip communities with computers to increase access to libraries and information. Who is going to do that training in the communities? Who is going to equip the library so they can download equipment if training is not there? That is something the regional librarian was going to do.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Looking at the list, I would say Pond Inlet is about the farthest away from Iqaluit and that is about 700 miles. I do not think it is 1,500 miles. It is much closer by phone and by fax and by e-mail. As I have indicated, there are limited funds and the chances for face to face visits are going to be restricted. There were no seminars or training sessions offered in Iqaluit in 1996 and that is going to be the way that we are, unfortunately, going. We do not have the money to spend on these services. As I said to the Member, if money were unlimited, this would not be the approach we would take. However, we have had to compromise between what might be an ideal approach and what is acceptable given the limits of funding. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I would like to try and keep order in this House. It is coming to a point where we should take a break soon. Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the savings to this government of those two positions is about $70,000, but the cost to this government by laying off these two positions will be a lot more. I do not think you can put a price tag on that type of information and the support they have been giving the communities. It is not just my concern, Mr. Chairman. We have had petitions coming in from outside of Iqaluit, you have had them come in from Pond, you have had them from Igloolik, you have had them from Arctic Bay, you have had them from Clyde River, you have had them from other communities. It is a budget issue, Mr. Todd, thank you. I am trying to get on with the budget. I think it is a legitimate question, Mr. Todd. Is he trying to debate me or am I asking questions to the Minister of Education?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Do Members want to take a break now, or do you want to continue? I would like to have order in this House. Mr. Picco, you have the floor.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you colleagues. I will try to be more statesmanlike in my questions to the Minister of Education. Can the Minister tell me if he consulted with the communities that would be affected by the loss of the regional librarian position?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, we did not consult with the communities when the librarians were proposed to be eliminated in the other regions, either. There has been no consultation with communities. Is the Member suggesting we should maintain these two positions and reduce the contributions to libraries? Because the bottom line, Mr. Chairman, is this is all the money there is. There is no more money. It has to come out either from those positions or from contributions to libraries.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The final supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the regional librarian, as I think I have articulated here today, has done more than just run a library. My final supplementary question is, if the regional librarian position is eliminated, who will provide the ongoing support of shipping books in our region to the smaller community libraries, where you only have a part-time person, in most cases not trained, do not have the library degree and so forth, so who will do that? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the borrow by mail program, if the Member is referring to that, the typical first point of contact would be the library technician, whose position will remain in Iqaluit. In terms of other supports, as I have said, those will be provided by the library technician position, as well as by the regional superintendent and by libraries headquarters staff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.