Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi will be absent from the House today to attend meetings with the president of the Canadian Energy Research Institute and the chairman of the National Energy Board at the Canadian Energy Research Institute North American Gas and Oil in Calgary. As well, Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Kelvin Ng will be absent from the House for the remainder of this week to attend the meeting of Provincial/Territorial Ministers of Justice in Fredericton. Thank you.

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Steen.

Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Erasmus on February 6th regarding drivers' licence photographs. On Thursday, February 6th, the Member for Yellowknife North asked about the Department of Transportation practice of retaining a duplicate of the photograph used in photo ID drivers' licenses. The Department of Transportation introduced photo ID drivers' licenses in April of 1991. For the first few years, the second photograph was not retained. The practice was changed in 1994 for better security in replacing lost or stolen drivers' licenses. The department found that people could too easily obtain false photo ID drivers' licenses or age-of-majority cards by claiming to have lost their license and then presenting someone else's birth certificate or health care card as proof of their identity. Retaining the second photograph on file makes it possible to establish a positive identification of the person who comes to the motor vehicle office asking for a new document. This is especially important for these documents which, because of the photograph, are widely used as proof of identity. False identity documents can be used for fraudulent and criminal purposes. The motor vehicles division retains the photograph solely for identification purposes and strictly within the motor vehicles division. As with any documents issued or received by the motor vehicles division, its files are confidential and subject to the privacy provision of the Motor Vehicles Act and the Access to Information and Protection and Privacy Act. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Miltenberger.

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I see a good friend of mine, long-time northerner and educator and I think now the assistant superintendent for ECE in the Baffin region, Miss Mary Ellen Thomas.

-- Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to introduce to you and my colleagues the superintendent of Education, Culture and Employment in the Kitikmeot region, Leona Aglukkaq.

-- Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mrs. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize my husband, my best friend and the best superintendent of all those guys.

-- Laughter/Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Roland.

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I can confirm that the federal government has agreed to an extension of the existing infrastructure program. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Todd.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, that is the kind of project that this program can assist. I would caution my honourable colleague that the total dollar impact on this project for across the territories is somewhere in the region of $2.7 million, of which 50 percent comes from the federal government, the rest from our coffers. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Yes, Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I alluded to earlier, there is a reality that there is roughly $2.7 million as an extension with this program. That is significantly less dollars than what we had over the last three years because it is a three year program. There may be some concern about the way in which we distribute it. In the past, I believe that we distributed it on a per capita basis by community. Mr. Dent advises me that given the size of the monies we have in place, we may in fact be considering distributing this money on a regional basis rather then a community by community basis. That decision has not been finalized at this time. Thank you.

Oral questions. Final supplementary.

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, it would be our intent to keep the communities and each of the constituents aware of this issue, but again, I stress to you it is a $2.7 million project across all of the communities in the Arctic. We may have to take a slightly difference approach than we did in the past. I believe the dollar amount last time for a three year period was in the region of $17 million. It may be that we will have to take a slightly different approach, but certainly the intent is to get the money as quickly as we can down to the communities and down to the people where it is most needed. Thank you.

Oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Mr. Speaker, return to Written Question 11-13(4) asked by Mr. Picco to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment concerning community libraries. On February 4, 1997 the Member for Iqaluit requested information on community libraries concerning:

1. The funding allocated in the 1997-98 budget for training and ongoing support services for libraries and library staff in the Baffin and Keewatin Regions.

Funding for local librarian training and ongoing support services in both the Baffin and Keewatin Regions is provided through the regional O and M budget. O and M budgets for Baffin and Keewatin are as follows:

REGION 1996/97 1997/98

Baffin $26,000 $26,000

Keewatin $15,000 $15,000

The funding for local librarian training in the western Arctic is provided through the budget from headquarters in Hay River. Libraries in the western Arctic receive funding support from the GNWT to cover salaries only. All other services are provided directly from headquarters in Hay River.

Ongoing support services, such as: centralized ordering, receiving, cataloguing, processing, database and automated library system maintenance, are provided to all regions from headquarters. All the library materials purchased, including books, videos and audio cassettes, have been allocated to the western Arctic, the Baffin region and the Keewatin region. One-half of the resources are allocated to the east and one-half to the west.

2. The number of training workshops provided by the headquarters staff, the headquarters staff in the Baffin and Keewatin and the regional librarians in the Baffin and Keewatin.

Training is provided by headquarters staff for all regional staff.

a) Training related to implementation of new systems is provided through workshops.

In 1996 fifteen individual on-site workshops were provided for libraries in the western Arctic; that is, libraries in Inuvik, Yellowknife, Hay River, Fort Smith and the Legislative Library in Yellowknife. These workshops enabled staff to become familiar with changes in the computerized systems, as libraries in these communities became able to access the systems.

Similar training workshops for regional staff in Iqaluit and Rankin Inlet were not provided in 1996 since they were not yet able to access the on-line systems to the same level. Once the Digital Communications Network has been enhanced in these communities in 1997-98 similar on-site training workshops will be delivered.

Smaller libraries operate according to the Local Librarian Handbook with assistance from headquarters and a local library board as needed.

b) Ongoing training in procedural updates and problem solving is also provided:

- by telephone and electronic mail as part of daily routine work at headquarters;

- through the Local Librarian Handbook which is updated and revised at headquarters as needed.

In 1992 there was a general training workshop in Iqaluit for both the Baffin and Keewatin community librarians held by the territorial librarian with the participation of the regional librarians. In 1994 and 1995 general workshops were provided in Iqaluit by the Baffin regional librarian for all Baffin community librarians. There was no workshop in 1996; however, regional librarians in the Baffin and Keewatin regions also provide additional ongoing training within their regions during visits to communities and by telephone and electronic mail.

3. Confirmation that the Baffin region is the only region where all library holdings are completely documented in the system.

All the collections from the six local libraries have been entered into the on-line database, partly by regional staff and partly by headquarters staff.

4. Identification of the contract or contact position available to consult with community librarians in the Baffin about local issues such as relations with hamlet councils, education authorities and school principals.

The regional superintendents for Education, Culture and Employment will provide this service in the Baffin and Keewatin regions. This service is already provided by regional superintendents in the western Arctic.

5. Confirmation that community libraries in the Baffin and Keewatin will be able to recover all expenses from this department for additional long distance charges for telephone, fax or computer to headquarters or Yellowknife rather than the regional centre.

The need for calls to headquarters or Yellowknife from the Baffin and Keewatin regions is not expected to be significantly increased since initial contact will be with the regional library technician. This position will still be based in Iqaluit and will continue to provide ongoing advice and support to community librarians in the east. The regional superintendent will also provide support and either the library technician or the regional superintendent can call headquarters staff to provide direct help to community librarians at headquarters' expense if such support is required.

In addition, the Digital Communications Network will provide more economical communications between all communities as they become connected, thereby reducing telephone, fax and computer links to headquarters.

Returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Picco.

The Member for Iqaluit is seeking unanimous consent to return to item 10. Do we have any nays? You do not have unanimous consent, Mr. Picco. Tabling of documents. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two letters to table. The first one is a letter about a video that is called " Atanajuat", Tabled Document No. 55-13(4).

Mr. Speaker, I am tabling this document, Tabled Document No. 56-13(4). It has to do with the Inuit Cultural Institute wanting to produce a video. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)

Thank you, Mr. Evaloarjuk. Tabling of documents. Mr. Krutko.

Tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bill 2, 8, 9, 10, Committee Report 2-13(4), Committee Report 3-13(4), Committee Report 4-13(4) and Committee Report 6-13(4). With Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Thank you. I would like to call the committee to order. We have a number of items to be considered under item 19. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Barnabas.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will consider Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1997-98, Committee Report 2-13(4), Committee Report 3-13(4), Committee Report 4-13(4) and Committee Report 6-13(4). We will conclude the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Do we have agreement that we will consider Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1997-98 and then Committee Reports 2-13(4), 3-13(4), 4-13(4) and 6-13(4)?

Agreed.

Thank you. We are on page 9-20. We are reviewing 1997-98 main estimates of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary. Mr. Minister, do you wish to bring in any witnesses before we get into the detail? Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Are we agreed?

Agreed.

Agreed. Sergeant-at-Arms, see to the witnesses, please. Thank you. Mr. Minister, would you please introduce the witnesses to the committee.

Welcome to the committee. We are on page 9-20, educational development, total operation and maintenance. Total operation and maintenance in this activity is $151,487,000. Agreed?

Agreed.

Mr. Roland.

Thank you. The honourable Minister. Mr. Dent.

Thank you. The honourable Member for Inuvik. Mr. Roland.

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Mr. Roland.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you. We have Mr. Henry and Mr. Picco. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister told us yesterday, and I think he mentioned a figure, I do not recall it right offhand, a large percentage increase in the number of students attending school in communities since schools were raised to Grade 12. My question to the Minister is, does he have figures on what the graduation rate increased, if any, in the last number of years? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Qujannamiik. The honourable Minister. Mr. Dent.

Qujannamiik. Educational development, Mr. Henry.

Thank you. So, the participation rate has increased, has doubled, but the graduation rate is up by between five and ten percent? Maybe the Minister could provide those statistics, broken down by community or whatever way he has them available to him. Does he have figures, say from 1991-95, on the number of students that go on to further education? I am not particularly talking about trades, on to college or university. Does he have figures in that area? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you. Are you okay on that, Mr. Henry? Okay. Thank you. We have Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, under educational development, I see public libraries are also mentioned here. I would like to bring up the situation regarding the proposed restructuring of library funding and also the proposed elimination of the regional librarian positions. The regional librarian position trains the community librarians and also adds support to the community librarians, most of which are part-time and volunteers in the smaller communities. I wonder if the Minister could tell me who will be providing ongoing training and support to the smaller libraries outside

the regional centre, when we have no more regional librarians?

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Qujannamiik. Mr. Picco.

Thank you. So, the Minister is telling me that the regional superintendent of the Baffin, for example, will fly into Pond Inlet, Clyde River, Igloolik, to train and help support the volunteer, in some cases, or part-time community librarian. Is that correct?

Thank you. The honourable Minister for Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Dent.

Thank you. The honourable Member for Iqaluit. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think we are missing something here on the regional librarian positions. I think what we are missing on the regional librarian positions is the work that they have done outside of the regional centre. I know, for example, in my community, the regional librarian would go to Clyde, would go to Igloolik, to set up libraries. Then they are also flying in and out of those communities to add that support. In a lot of cases where the small community libraries have just been set up, they get their books from the regional library. The referral service helps them set up the Dewey Decimal System and so on. I am not convinced by the Minister that a library technician, who is actually based in our community library in Iqaluit, is now going to be going out to continue that type of on-site help for the community libraries. So, is the Minister telling me that the library technician, it sounds like a "yes" position, is now going to be providing part of the logistic help the regional librarian was providing? Is that correct and what percentage?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you. Education development. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, a professional librarian is a person who of course has graduated from university, has the necessary training in the filing, the Dewey Decimal System we talked about before. The community librarian positions are often part-time and the person hired usually does not have much experience in working in a library. This makes the role of the regional librarian more essential to maintaining the community library services. My follow up question to the Minister on this area is: with the advent of Nunavut in April 1, 1999, one of the key areas the NIC has recommended to this government is having a library service set up. By eliminating the library position today, it means we will have to rehire and restructure that position for tomorrow. I think that is dumb planning on behalf of this government. I do not think it is strategic. I do not think it is acceptable. Mr. Todd is agreeing with me. My follow up question now to the Minister concerning the regional librarian position is: what about the Legislative Library that is currently trying to be set up in the capital of Nunavut, with all the duplicate files being sent over, who will be maintaining the system? Who will be filing the system? Who will be doing that work? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Todd is a very understanding man.

-- Applause

Mr. Minister.

Thank you. We are reviewing the Department of Education Culture and Employment. We have on the list, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Ootes, and Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the Minister's opening address he indicated the department is continuing to participate in the National School Achievement Indicators Program which assess the students in the areas of math, reading, writing, and science. Unfortunately, this testing does not indicate to us which students are up to the national level, and which ones are under, although it does give us an indication of an overall picture. How come the system does not allow us to find out where the successful students and the unsuccessful students are in relation to these particular tests?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What does "not normed for northern students" mean?

Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.

Merci. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister indicated they would make adjustments based on the performance. How can you make adjustments if you do not know who was tested at the national level and who has not?

Thank you. The honourable Minister, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are there some areas that are not affected by cultural differences? Course areas, for instance math as compared to social studies.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If all areas are affected then I find it difficult to understand why we would not try to find a way how we can test these students and compare them to each other. We will then know where the students have not actually met the national standard and where the students have met the national standard.

Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.

Thank you. That was a final supplementary for the honourable Mr. Erasmus for the time being. We are reviewing the 1997/98 main estimates of the

government, Department of Education, Culture and Employment. We are on the activity educational development. We have Mr. Ootes, Mr. Miltenberger, and Mr. Henry. Mr. Ootes.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you. Mr. Ootes.