The man with the nice hair, Mr. Todd wishes to bring in the witnesses. Do we have agreement?

Agreed.

Proceed. Sergeant-at-Arms.

-- Pause

Thank you. Mr. Todd, for the record, would you please introduce the witness to the committee.

On my immediate right is Mr. Voytilla, deputy minister of FMBS. Thank you.

Welcome Mr. Voytilla.

-- Applause

During the past two weeks, the chairs of this committee we have been pretty lenient with Members. The time when Members will sway to another issue which is not in the activity and on to another topic. I would like to remind all the Members to try and stay within the topic that is being considered. In this case we are dealing with human resource management. I would ask the Members to stay within that. There are times when Members will move to another topic which is another activity to be considered later. Agreed?

Agreed.

Thank you. Human resource management, operations and maintenance. Total operations and maintenance, $5,023,000. Mr. Krutko and Mr. Picco. Mr. Krutko. We are on page 2-31, human resource management under the Finance Management Board Secretariat. Mr. Picco and Mr. Krutko. Mr. Krutko did you want to speak at this time? Thank you.

Thank you. We have Mr. Picco and Mr. Steen after Mr. Krutko. Mr. Minister.

No, it is not the practise of this government.

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

First of all, I do not quite understand the gentleman's question but I will try to answer this way, because you have to put this whole darn thing in perspective. There were 358 employees that were laid off. There are eight employees that have been rehired after the notice period was over. We have gone on and on about this for the last two days. Give me some specifics, instead of this innuendo, generalization because it is simply not fact. I will deal with it.

At some point, we have to get on with dealing with the budget. I am saying to you, Mr. Chairman, that if the Member has specific instances with respect to his concerns, we will deal with them. I cannot deal with generalities, unsubstantiated concerns and I am not trying to be difficult but let us get specific if that is the case. I am told 358 people were issued layoffs, out of that eight have been rehired after the notice period was over. That is what I am told.

Thank you. Human resource management. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Okay. That is my point. I am saying if Mr. Krutko wishes to be specific, we are prepared to deal with it. I am giving you the facts as we see them. This is what I am told. I do not see this as a major issue at this time. But we will look into Health and Social Services. Thank you.

Thank you. We do have two other Members of this committee that wish to speak. Mr. Krutko. Final for the time being? Okay. Thank you. I have Mr. Picco and Mr. Steen. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I feel a great pleasure today in being able to speak on the topic of human resource management and the government's central labour relations and human resource management functions, which include the provision of job evaluation services. Going back to 1974 when I worked in the hen farm, in that position

where there was no union involvement, which caused quite considerable pain for us.

Moving on then into 1980, when I was working in a fish plant in Newfoundland, we did not have a unionized shop there. Thus, when Labour Day came, we were working 70 and 80 hours a week. We complained to labour relations and we won a contract settlement. In the next position I had, I did not have a unionized shop. So the unions do perform a service.

After giving a little bit of a background on that, I will go ahead to 1987, when I was President of the Union of Northern Workers and on the negotiating team. In giving that kind of background and history, when I was President and also a member of the negotiating team and a shop steward and that kind of wonderful stuff, I think I am qualified to speak on this area of labour relations.

Mr. Chairman, the Northwest Territories at this time has never had a situation with such low morale in our Public Service. The introduction of the Public Service Act and the subsequent amendments last year, drove a stake through the hearts of the unionized movement here in the Northwest Territories. That is why I voted against it. Coming out of that, the director of labour services for the government, Mr. Herb Hunt - the union had a problem working with him.

Now I am leading into my question here for Mr. Todd and Mr. Voytilla. Can the Minister update us right now as to the status of the labour relations, the disagreement that our major union, the Union of Northern Workers, the Executive of Northern Workers, and the rank and file had with the labour relations service and the Labour Relations Board, for which Mr. Herb Hunt works. I wonder what the status is now of that working relationship, because the union had said at one time they did not want to deal with that individual and for x-number of reasons.

So my question would be, what is the status now of the relationship there?

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Todd.

Thank you. I thought maybe we were in story time. Mr. Chairman, I want to assure my honourable colleague, who gave us a lengthy dissertation on his history and involvement in the union movement when he was minimum-waging it in Newfoundland and Portugal Cove, that the relationship between my department and the loyal staff that we have with the executive of the UNW is reasonable, it is professional, and it is continuing as it did before.