Agreed.

Agreed?

Agreed.

Page 2-34, details of grants and contributions. Total contributions $7,710,000. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

This has been a general growth in this area and not just in this last year but in previous years. It is primarily due to the fact that there has been an enormous

thrust in terms of this government in getting out of housing and making houses privately owned where the subsidy comes in. Two, just the natural growth within the Territories in terms of new housing and, three, I would think that the cost of fuel and other expenditures are also a factor. I have had discussions about this at some length, Mr. Dent. It is primarily due to the fact that you have a growth in domestic utilization by individual house owners who own and operate their own houses. As you know, the last three or four years because of the cut to the Housing Corporation's social budget by the federal government, this arbitrary cut, the Minister, this Minister and the previous ones who worked hard to bring in privately owned incentives for people to own their own homes, there has clearly been an acceleration that has put more demand on the subsidy program and it is growing yearly and it is something we definitely need to address. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

It is the primary part of it but there is a commercial subsidy as well. In 1995 the domestic subsidy was 5.5 million, give or take a few dollars, and the commercial subsidy was roughly $350,000. You are talking 95 percent of the budget - or the subsidy on the domestic side. Thank you.

Thank you. Details of grants and contributions. Contributions, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you. Mr. Todd

I think that it is understood by all parties, I agreed there is a genuine concern out there that this subsidy continues to soar. It ultimately comes out of the retained earnings of the Power Corporation which ultimately has to go back in through rate increases or whatever. I think that this is a serious issue. It is not just the cost versus the revenues. It is also, as Mr. Miltenberger says, it needs to be more energy efficient, and I know in our discussions that is one of the issues that we are talking about and things like greater utilization of the waste heat, for example, in Fort McPherson, I

believe in my own home town they are utilizing it as well with the Public Works offices, et cetera. There is an anxiety out there about this expenditure and how it is funded. I concur that we need to move to find some satisfactory solutions. Thank you.

Thank you. Contributions. Total contributions is $7,710,000. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At this par subsidy at $6,800, I wonder if the Minister or his officials could give a quick explanation of what it is. I think, because of the large amount of money, I think it is important that the people of the territories have an understanding of where this money goes and what it is for. Thank you.

Thank you. On the accounting, Mr. Minister.

Yes, I wish it was $6,800. $6,800,000 on the domestic subsidy. It is clear that the domestic subsidy program provides us this discount to all NWT residents - users outside of Yellowknife, whose power rates are higher than the Yellowknife area, get the first 700 kilowatt hours per month, okay? That is on the domestic side. In other words, they get that subsidy. Anything above that, they pay the full rate. The commercial subsidy provides a discount to northern businesses located outside of Yellowknife whose power rates are hard in Yellowknife and whose gross revenue is less than $2,000,000 per year. The subsidies for small businesses is the difference between the community costs and the Yellowknife cost for kilowatt hours and can soar up to 1,000 kilowatts a month. So, on the domestic side, you get a subsidy, the difference between 700 kilowatt costs in Yellowknife versus what it costs you in Rankin Inlet. On the commercial side, you get the same principle subsidy at 1,000 kilowatts and if it is for companies that have got smaller than $2,000,000 in revenues. Thank you.

Thank you. Our time is just about over. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That answered my question.

Thank you. Total contributions for this area is $7,710,000.

Agreed.

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.