This is page numbers 467 - 491 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was aboriginal.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

There is a motion on the floor to report progress and the motion is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion to report progress, please signify. The motion is done please. Opposed. There were Members coming in at the same time and voting. Please signify again. All those in favour of the motion to report progress, please signify again. Down. Opposed. In order to allow the committee to try and resolve some of the items that we are discussing, I will vote against the motion. The motion is defeated. General comments, we have Mr. Picco and Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. After some discussion on both the lands claims settlement area and the mandate of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs, we requested yesterday if the Premier would look at amalgamating all funding for aboriginal programs, self-government talks, and devolution under one ministry, but I did not get the Minister's response. Is he looking at that? When will that come into place? So on. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that motion that came forward yesterday, we still have to look at it and see what it really means. In the type of work that we would be doing and self-government and in land claims, we rely on Justice, rely on MACA, and so forth, so it would be difficult to lump those type of resources together, but perhaps there is a way to streamline what we are already doing under the jurisdiction that the ministry has. I think I could say that we are looking into it and I think it is a good motion that was passed there and we will try to comply by that. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. I have Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Following up on Mr. Ootes' remarks, with respect to the consultation and our efforts to have a new constitution in place for the western Arctic, I do appreciate the Minister's clarification in the House yesterday, that the facilitators that will be going into the communities will be also talking about the other two models. I believe that there has been, as the Minister himself indicated, some not so favourable reaction to the main model that was put forward, but I think that if you look at all three of the models and take certain parts from each one and you blend them, so to speak, that there is something there that I think would be saleable and satisfactory to most of the people in the western Arctic.

Because it would appear, for some, that the model put forward is the recommended one, what it has done, unfortunately, has driven people to the other extreme, which is to say that we want to keep the status quo. The problem with the status quo is that is does not address the most fundamental basic principle of what we are trying to do and that is to bring together aboriginal self-government and public government. The status quo in no way addresses that aspiration. I think that it would be the right approach to make sure that all three models are brought to people's understanding and one in particular, which is the 18 Member model, is one which I think has a tremendous amount of merit and addresses quite a number of concerns that I have heard.

Having said that, the ratification process is another issue which is one that has raised a lot of concern, but I think when people put it into the perspective that safeguards being built into the ratification process do not hurt, because I think that we would have something far from political peace and harmony if there is even a perception that one sector of our population in the west could force an arrangement on another sector and I think that would make for unsettled and unhappy arrangement for many, many years to come. If the ratification process does have to include safeguards to make sure that the majority of, for example, both aboriginal and non-aboriginal people support the presentation, I do not personally have a problem with that, because we want this to be an arrangement and a bringing together of these two types of government that is going to be workable. Something that is imposed on one side or by one group of people is not going to be workable in the long run. Those are my comments on the constitution and the ratification process. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Did Mr. Minister want to respond? Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think these are very good comments. I think it only adds to the development of the constitution development with these type of comments. I know the three models that we have there, they all have merits and there has been discussion already that we have to take a look at each one of them and see what is good in each one of them and see whether they could mesh. Ultimately, the idea there is to try to get a constitution together that is reflective of the society and I know it is here today, if that constitution would carry on into the future.

The current status quo, the N.W.T. Act, is something that was developed for us in Ottawa, many years ago and we use it, but it does not really reflect the realities of how the societies and the communities today work. We make our own arrangements. If it is going to be truly a society that is reflective of how the society is in the north and how we would like to see it in the future, it has to be developed by us in the north here together. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Barnabas.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

I would like to make a motion to report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

The motion is on the floor to report progress and the motion is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion, please signify. Keep it up. Against the motion. Motion, this time, is defeated democratically. Thank you. Line by line? Agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. On page 2-46 of the 1997/98 main estimate activity, summary. Aboriginal Affairs, operations and maintenance. Total operations and maintenance, $2,377,000. Agreed? Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a question of Mr. Antoine with regard to timing of the constitutional process, which he did not answer in response to my earlier comments and I wonder if he could clarify that for me? I had a question earlier for Mr. Antoine in regards to why the constitution needed to be processed in the timeframe set by the working group. I wonder if he could clarify that for me?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The Honourable Minister, Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I apologize for missing that one response to the honourable Member. He had a whole series of concerns and I was diligently going through the list but I had a note saying that my replies were too long so I might have deleted it. I guess the short answer for the urgency of 1999 is that there will be less incentive for the federal government after 1999 to make constitutional changes. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Does that answer your question, Mr. Ootes? Mr. Ootes.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I do not understand what the incentive for the federal government would be in any event, Mr. Chairman. I understood that there was concern about trying to achieve a constitution that could be taken through the House of Commons and that usually takes a two-year timeframe. We are nearing a very narrow gap in that now and I wonder if Mr. Antoine could tell me what is wrong with the possibility, because these are the kinds of questions that are raised publicly, what is wrong with trying to take a little more time to develop the constitution and doing it by April 1st, year 2000, instead of April 1st, 1999?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we have had these kinds of discussions, as well. We would like to see that we carry on the course of action that we took to try to have something in place by 1999. I know the window for putting a document forward, so that it will run through the legislative course in Ottawa is very timely. I think that, at this point in time, I am optimistic that if we are able to achieve what we say we want to do with the consultation process and the revision and a ratification by the fall, perhaps we still have enough time to have legislation go through the Parliament in Ottawa before 1999. That is the intention all along.

Yes, there is a lot of unknowns out there. We have a lot of different bodies in the north here that are participants. The different aboriginal regions and the groups along with us here in the Legislative Assembly. The federal government are also now directly involved with us, committed to go through this process with us. These are outside factors of which we have to be aware. At any time, there might be some major problems which may come up that may slow us down.

At the same time, the federal government is going into an election, so there again there are outside factors. We realize these things. The worst case scenario would probably be that we may not have something there by 1999, and then we have to start thinking of different options, maybe what the honourable Member is suggesting here is that, are there other options out there? My answer there is, no, we are pursuing this course of action, and perhaps we should be seriously considering what the honourable Member is saying, that we may not be able to meet the 1999 deadline and we may have to see whether this type of process that is under way could carry on beyond 1999. I hope that we could be able to maintain that course of action and be successful in getting the legislation through Parliament by 1999. However, there is possibilities out there that it may not happen and we will have to consider other options. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We are dealing with Aboriginal Affairs. We have Mr. Henry and Mr. Barnabas that wanted to speak and we also have Mr. Erasmus. To Aboriginal Affairs. Mr. Henry.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister has alluded to the letter from the federal government, Indian Affairs, regarding concerns they have with the proposed document, Partners in a New Beginning, the constitutional process to the west, the proposed constitution. Will the Minister be encouraging the group to make adjustments to the document that will go to the public or go to the communities for consideration? Will he be making the adjustments required or suggested by the federal government? Will he be amending the document prior to going out for consultation to conform to what the federal government, wants to address their concerns? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Minister Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the members of the Constitutional Working Group, at the last meeting, made references to a rolling draft. As the different concerns come up, then those concerns have to be taken into consideration to try to satisfy all of the different parties to this whole document. Yes, since the document was tabled in October, a lot of different reactions have taken place, and a lot of suggestions have also been made on how to alter this document already to-date. All these different suggestions will be brought forward when this document is presented to the public for the consultation process. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Henry.