Close.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have been concerned for quite some time that there has not been enough attention being paid to matters in the west concerning land claims and treaty rights and various other matters in the aboriginal affairs area. I am pleased to see that there will be a little more money being put into this area, because, as I say, I have been quite concerned for a period of time, particularly when we see the tens of million of dollars being poured into development in the eastern Arctic for their constitutional development, infrastructure development, and the training, and there is no equivalent to that in the west.

Similarly, there has not been enough work being done in the area of assisting the aboriginal people in the west in defining aboriginal and treaty rights, and in concluding their claims. We do know that the division of the territories and the emergence of Nunavut has come about through a land claim. Similarly, in the west for the aboriginal people over here, the conclusion of land claims would help land claims and treaty land entitlement or whatever type of land agreements that the people in the west do. They will help the aboriginal people to contribute much more significantly economically as well as raising their employment levels. Because employment and I guess, wealth in a way, is directly associated with health and education and social programs and the rest of that, I believe that this government should be doing as much as possible to assist in getting these claims, land agreements, to be finalized as quickly as possible.

There was just a report put out recently by the federal government which indicates that the number one enemy to your health basically, or there abouts, number one is unemployment. We know that the high rates of unemployment amongst the aboriginal people in the west, in the north, and in this instance, I am speaking about the west, the rates are abominable. Nobody would want to be included in those statistics. No non-aboriginal person would want to be included in such statistics. Madam Chair, similarly non-aboriginal people would not want to be included in the statistics involved in the deplorable state of education amongst the aboriginal people in the west and in the east.

So, as I said, I am very pleased to see that there is an attempt to put more money into this area. I hope that the other Members can also agree with this and perhaps recommend that we put more money in addition to what is being suggested if they so choose. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I too have very similar views of the honourable Member in regards to his concerns, but this government here has a position that we do support the land claims that the different aboriginal nations here in the north are attempting to pursue with the federal government. Here again, in the land claims, it is an arrangement that is initiated between the First Nations and the federal government. Once that is initiated, we try to expedite the talks any way we can. In regards to self-government, in the self-government area, it is a little bit of a different arrangement where we are a third party as the Government of the Northwest Territories, to the talks since the main thrust of the self-government talks is to look at the type of jurisdictions that GNWT currently has in the communities in regards to providing programs and services. So, we are directly affected. Therefore, we are directly involved in this area, in a number of different self-government talks that are beginning or initial stages of starting as well.

So the government has developed a policy to be part of this. I think that we are in position to carry on with the negotiations in these different areas. So we are in a position to move ahead. In regards to the additional dollars that the honourable Member mentioned, it is just for clarification here. I think it was raised earlier on in some of the questioning in the House that the cost, the self-government initiative, is very important to us as a government. We need more resources to participate to protect the interests of the Northwest Territories when self-government talks are going on between federal government and the aboriginal nations that are negotiating. These additional dollars came about by the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs in October 23 putting a paper towards Cabinet requesting additional resources so that we have people in place and money in place to do the work.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, in response to the honourable Member in regards to adequate funding, the ministry is a small department and the honourable Member made reference to the fact that this department used to have substantially more in the budget in the past. Since about a year ago, the direction from the different standing committees was to take the committee transfer initiative out of this ministry and pass it on to Municipal and Community Affairs, and that we did. At the same time, the Intergovernmental and Constitutional Affairs was also moved out of this ministry and moved into the Department of the Executive. Hence the reduction in the amount of resources and people that we have in this ministry.

This ministry, even though it is small, is a very important ministry and we are dealing with very crucial and sensitive issues that are going to effect all of us in the north and into the future, especially when we are dealing with the development of a new constitution and, at the same time, with representing this government and when we are sitting down with the aboriginal First Nations, when we are discussing self-government initiatives. So even though this ministry is very small, it is a very crucial one and, hence, the resources that we have there is what we have to work with and as we see that we need more resources, such as we have for the constitutional talks, we are able to secure some funding to carry on the work from the Government of the Northwest Territories, as well as from the feds.

So there is some funding there for carrying out this constitutional development work and, as for having more participation in the self-government talks, we are requesting in the supp that we are going to be needing additional resources as well and as we move along in these processes and we come to situations in the future where we may require additional resources, then we certainly are going to be pursuing that as well into the future. But at the present time, the budget is what we have to work with and that is what we have in the business plan for approval. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will be very brief. For the record, Madam Chair, I would like to express my gratitude on behalf of the people of Nunavut for the support assumed by and demonstrated by this government over the past 20 some years when we were preparing for creation of Nunavut. I think we the people of Nunavut, have been very fortunate in some areas. Unlike the west, our area is a little less complex. We have three different regions, Kitikmeot, Keewatin, and Baffin, and basically, we are able to understand each other in our language, slightly different, but basically you can communicate with each other.

Secondly, I have talked to people like Levi Barnabas, Mr. Enuaraq, and other Nunavut Members from other parts of the Nunavut area. I come from the Kitikmeot region. I was born in Keewatin, but every time you talk to somebody else from another community in the Baffin, you realize that there is someone related to someone from different regions. It really is a small world.

The people of Nunavut, mainly the aboriginal people, from the beginning of time survived on one condition, that we learned to survive by working together. It was the only way. In our camp, when we needed to survive we depended on the other people, because we were living out on the sea. When you are living out on the sea and you have to look for seal holes, one seal will have maybe five or six, maybe ten holes at a time. There is no way for one person, one hunter, to be able to check every hole at the same time, so we need the help of other people to survive and to work together, even though you are from the different camp site. That was part of the survival.

So when we talked about creation of Nunavut, 20 some years ago, we realized that one region will not be able to do things that he wanted to do for their people. Perhaps two regions would be able to work something out, but three regions would even be better to get something from the government in terms of negotiations. We realize that in numbers, the opportunity to succeed is ten times better than if you have one or two people.

Madam Chair, once we divide, I would like to assure the people of the west, all my colleagues, that from the Kitikmeot region, I come from Kitikmeot region, the municipalities of Kitikmeot region want to continue buying services from this area. I am not speaking for the whole of Nunavut, but I am speaking for my region. We will continue to buy services. How much, I have no idea. People from Kitikmeot region have depended upon Yellowknife for medical services. I thank the people of Yellowknife for educational services and the likes and I, as your brother, hope that you will be able to succeed in your endeavour to have your own government in this area, a western government. I have to say that because we will continue to depend on each other. I would like to underline that part. People assume that when we divide, the western government will be the government by itself, the eastern government will be the government by itself. There will be a line drawn between the two. That is only an imaginary line, I am sure, given the constitution of the country, mobility rights and so on. You can seek jobs here and there. I am sure that we will continue to work closely together, co-operate together and still very much depend on each other. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, first of all I would like to thank the honourable Member, since he has thanked the government for the support over the last 20 years that Nunavut was struggling to become recognized as a territory in itself, so I would like to thank you for those words on behalf of the government. Yes, there is not much I could say about that, of what the honourable Member is saying, except that as we continue for division in 1999, we still have a lot of work ahead of us, and there is very much concern there for how eventually things will work out and, even though we have worked together over the last 20 years, we still have a few more years ahead of us and we certainly would like to continue to work co-operatively towards that division, and the more we work together, I think the easier it will be to have division happen in a very good way. That is all I could add as my comment, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the honourable Member touched on some very important key areas here in regards to the constitutional development here in the western Arctic. I just want to say that in regards to process and who will make up a consultation team, we do not know right now who is going to make up the consultation team except that the Constitutional Working Group just at the beginning of the week at their meetings directed our executive director, Fred Koe, to put notice out that we are looking for facilitators. We think that the best approach would be to get people who are skilled in facilitating workshop type of arrangements so that we could get maximum use out of any meetings that we have in the community so that we give out the information that we have and the information will include the Partners in a New Beginning package. The one area that is red flagged the most is the one model that is highlighted in the document. We have asked our staff to develop further the other two models that were put in the appendix of that document, so, yes, the contents will be different models. But we would like to look at the principles of the document. I think that up to this point it is safe to say there is a general support for the guiding principles that are in there. A lot of the guiding principles are things that we have worked out throughout the years so it is acceptable for now.

I think that the majority of the package is acceptable. I think that the only problem that we had was that the one model that we illustrated as a possible model on how aboriginal self-government, inherent right of self-government could be integrated or working along with a public government system. I think that was our example of how it could happen. As the honourable Member indicated that was a big target for a lot of people that saw it as something that they do not support. The reactions that we have heard from public meetings here in Yellowknife and perhaps, in Hay River, and from articles that we have seen in the Globe and Mail and other publications like the Western Report, different commentaries, and so forth that we have seen. It is part of the process. I see it as part of the process. I do not see it as a negative response to what we are doing. I see it as very important to the whole process. Those of us who worked four months last summer in putting this together came to a lot of compromises among ourselves to come out of the package. We understood and realized all along that a package such as that would not be acceptable to everybody. Therefore, there is going to be some reactions. We expected the reactions and they are there. Personally, I was hoping that along with the negative reaction, that there would be suggestions on how we could work. We have seen very little of that. But, hopefully, and we were not prepared to do a very good consultation at that time because of lack of money and resources, but now, we have been able to secure some funding so that we could put a team together to go into the communities.

Just getting back to who will go into the communities along with facilitators, we are hoping that the facilitators would come from the regions or the communities. We know that there are people out there that are familiar with a certain region or are familiar with a community that could do this type of facilitating, so that we could get more out of this tour when we are getting together. So, the formulation of the team is still being worked on. The Constitutional Working Group, we meet whenever it is necessary and we will probably be meeting here fairly shortly and probably next week or so to carry on with the work because we gave instruction to our executive director to maybe beef up and formulate some of the plans more. Once we got that we will notify the Members on the progress of that initiative.

Just something aside, before this meeting today, I had a couple of calls from elders and their suggestion that whenever there is a tour like this going into the communities, their suggestion is that elders be involved, key elders be involved to give some guidance and some direction into this process. This is just an example of different suggestions that are coming out from people who are very interested in making sure that this constitution is done in the good and proper way.

Yes, we will after consultation into the communities, and feedback that we get from the people, we will then compile a report and revise the document and review the document and the Constitutional Working Group is in partnership with the aboriginal summit leaders. The practice has always been that these meetings are there and Members, MLAs that are not part of the working group, have come in on their own and sat in. That practice is still going be there. This is in reply to your question about how will it be reviewed, how it will be revised. There is opportunity for participation in that, and it will go to the western Caucus because the western Caucus is one of the partners in this whole initiative.

In regards to ratification, that is going to be in the form of a public plebiscite. Exactly how that is going to be done, we are still developing that and we are seeking suggestions on that as well. I think our main focus right now is the consultation process. We are focusing on that. We still in the back of our minds, have the ratification process that is also formulating at the same time. It is not too clear exactly when and how it is going to happen, but it is going to happen.

In regards to the federal concerns, yes, when our officials were meeting with the federal officials there was give and take, back and forth, different meetings and the federal government's reaction to that was that yes, they would like to see a product that is made-in-the-north. Their concerns are both on policy issues and legal issues as well. The good positive thing about it is that the federal officials will be available throughout the development of the constitutional process so that federal concerns will be clearly understood whenever they arise. I think the federal government's initial reaction was focused on that one model that is in the Partners for New Beginning. The specifics of that is that they regard the voting of aboriginal and non-aboriginal as a serious policy concern. The feds deemed it to be foreign to Canadian values and tradition. In an aboriginal person coming from the north, there is difference of opinion on that issue because I do not think they took into consideration the other two models that were in the document. Their suggestion is that it may contravene the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and therefore it needs clarification. I think that since this concern first came out, I think that there has been a lot of clarification in this area as more explanation has been provided to the federal officials on this one. We will further clarify this issue as well.

Another concern, also in regards to the contravention of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, is the voting. There again it is based on the one model, which again I said that their analysis is incomplete since they did not really take into consideration the other two models, specifically the voting and assemblies of that one model in the Partners which gives veto to aboriginal over all public government legislation. There again is a need for clarification in there. That also could be dealt with by getting more information out with the two other models that are in the appendix.

The other concern that you have asked is that the negotiation for the negotiating the self-government companion agreement. They are requesting that it be ratified and in place at the same time as the new legislation. With this arrangement, it is an arrangement between the aboriginal leaders and the federal government. On this particular issue here, the GNWT, we are more or less an observer status on that. It is really up to the aboriginal leaders to come up with this self-government companion arrangement. The feds put it as part of the condition. It puts us in an awkward position, but we have let the aboriginal leaders know about this particular condition. They feel that they are in a position where they are dealing with it, and I think it could be resolved.

In regards to this other concern, which is the authority of the territorial government beyond the province, it does not restrict these matters within the territorial governments, and it is hard to. So, this is an area of more a legal issue than anything else and I think that this area here could be dealt with as we go through this whole process.

So, these are some of the concerns that were raised by the federal government and, of course, in our document we talk about the MPs and the Senate, and they are saying that it is not for the NWT Act to decide on these areas. This was their first reaction to our document. I think that when we look at it, we expected some reactions, so we think we can deal with all these different issues as we go along through this process. So, thank you, Madam Chair.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Chair. I had a few comments that I forgot along the way but I will pursue certain comments. First of all, regarding the Nunavik Makivik land claims and I would like to express my gratitude for working with them. I have been a member with the land claims process back in the days when it used to be called TFN and we used to work with the Makivik Corporation. I did not quite understand the response to one of the questions concerning the islands just north of northern Quebec. But, I do remember that the leaders of Nunavut, during one of our meetings, indicated, as well as members of the Sanikiluaq area, we all made an agreement that these islands would be accessible for all of the parties to have hunting rights. In particular, those people are true Inuit even though they live in Quebec. They have become part of Quebec in only recent years, as of 1912. They had apparently been redefined in the borders of Quebec from outside of the territories and we agreed that as fellow Inuit we would never sue one another for crossing or overlapping our border rights. That being the case, I would like to appreciate and respect that agreement.

There were other items as well, including the people of Arviat and Baker Lake. These regions are the closest within the border of the other provinces. My question is this, you have Manitoba aboriginal people and you have Saskatchewan aboriginal people, and at that time those groups could not come to an agreement and they were interested in taking action in court. I am wondering what the status is of that situation?

I also want to recognize the people of Sahtu. We had a good working relationship, and if I remember correctly, we were able to make agreements concerning our land claims, and I would like to recognize that importance. So, as far as my two questions go concerning the islands of northern Quebec, what is their status now? My other question is on the status of the other aboriginal groups. What has become of the court cases that were pending from the other aboriginal groups? Thank you, Madam Chair.

In regards to honourable Member's questions as far as the Makivik land claims going on, I am told that about 1,975 square kilometres are available for selection by Makivik for the offshore islands. So we are involved in negotiations because all the islands are NWT jurisdiction, with the Nunavut Final Agreement. The honourable Member is right, there is an agreement between the Nunavut Inuit and Nunavik Inuit, so there is an ongoing land claims in that area. So we are monitoring it and there again, it is an arrangement with the federal government and we are participating in that whole discussion and we are honouring the Nunavut Final Agreement in this process.

Once these islands will still be under the NWT and Nunavut jurisdiction during this whole process and hopefully, that is how we are going to try to resolve those issues. That is the position of this government at this time.

In regards to the other question for the Manitoba and Saskatchewan Dene in the northern part of the provinces, they have traditionally used the land in the north, north of 60, now in the Nunavut area. I understand that this issue has been settled out of court and I also know that Josie Kusugak and some Inuit leaders did meet with some of the chiefs from the provinces very recently. I did not know that some of the leaders from Saskatchewan have been asking to meet with this government to put their issues forward. I would just like to say that this issue is still not resolved. I think that we have to resolve these issues and try to work together. So, that is still ahead of us on this one here.

In regards to the Sahtu, once people work together, then they are able to come to an agreement on the issues that are before us and this is a good example of what happened with the Sahtu area in regards to Nunavut settlement. Thank you.

Qujannamiik. (Translation) We decided for you. (Translation ends) In the general comments, Aboriginal Affairs, we have Mr. Picco and Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to move we report progress.