Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have a question regarding the directorate. I just want to get some direction if it is okay to ask at this time. It is regarding certain court cases in Canada, especially when it comes to aboriginal rights and the whole process that is starting up in the territories on aboriginal self-government.
Debates of Feb. 18th, 1998
Topics
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Mr. Chairman, I did not hear a question there, maybe the Member could restate it.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Yes, it is okay to ask Mr. Krutko.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is regarding some court cases in southern Canada, especially when it comes to aboriginal rights, especially in New Brunswick, British Columbia, in which they clearly identify it in regard to the rights for aboriginal people regarding subsistence, harvesting of trees and also the question about extinguishment. I would like to ask the Minister, has his department taken a look at these court rulings and how he could implicate what goes on in the territories, especially decisions that are made by governments by giving out timber licences where areas have not been surrendered yet through claims or what not?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, in general the department does monitor what is going on in the rest of the country and does try to keep track of the major cases that the Member cited. I will ask Mr. Cooper to perhaps if he can, give some detail on it.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Cooper.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Cooper
As the Minister has said, we do monitor and review relevant cases concerning aboriginal law that are decided throughout the country. A case decided in British Columbia or New Brunswick is not necessarily binding on the Northwest Territories, although it may be persuasive and a lot of these cases seemingly get appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada. When decisions come from that body that becomes the law throughout the country and we certainly abide by all the laws as decided by the Supreme Court of Canada. In terms of political development in relation to aboriginal law that tends to be handled by the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs and we provide the legal advice. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Krutko.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My other question is regarding the area of self-government and the inherent right in regard to self-government negotiations and the right for aboriginal people to negotiate self-government arrangements. In the case of the Yukon where they have self-government agreements as part of their comprehensive claims agreement, they do have the right to establish institutions in regard to courts and basically the administration of justice. Is this department considering looking at that sort of concept when it comes to self-government negotiations in the west in the Northwest Territories?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. Mr. Cooper.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Cooper
Cabinet sets policy for this government in terms of what may or may not be looked at. Our department does not have carriage of this particular issue. It is the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs. I am not trying to duck the question, but we do provide legal support for Aboriginal Affairs and we have three lawyers who are dedicated to supporting that process. Again, in terms of political direction based on a legal foundation, MAA has carriage of that issue.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Krutko.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to the whole area of self-government, one of the perimeters that they are looking at is the administration of justice. When you say you are not trying to establish road blocks or what not in that process, technically, the Department of Justice is involved in that process, but when you make decisions in Cabinet which may bound the other party from being able to negotiate those items such as developing their justice system and having correction facilities to represent their particular aboriginal organizations. For instance if the Gwich'in wants to establish their own justice system dealing with how they are going to establish their aboriginal justice committees to looking at the role they are going to play in regard to the correction facilities that they are going to use and the type of responsibilities they are going to take on under Justice. How can you say on one hand that you are not responsible, yet there are decisions that you are making now that will have an implication on that process which is presently underway and you are at the table at those negotiations?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the deputy minister clearly stated that although the Department of Justice does have a role in providing legal advice to this process, it is the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs. The Minister of Aboriginal Affairs has the lead, and I understand that he takes the advice and direction of the Cabinet and the Cabinet's constitutional affairs committee that sets the perimeters or the guidelines on how negotiations are going to proceed. In
general, the Department of Justice provides a technical, legal assistance to the process rather than leading the process.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Directorate, Mr. Krutko.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The point I am trying to make is that there is a process which is presently underway especially in regard to the MacKenzie Delta and also Dogribs and other aboriginal organizations are seriously looking at the way Justice is being delivered to the people they represent. If through those processes of negotiations for the aboriginal groups in which one of the items they have a right to negotiate is Justice. This department who is responsible for Justice, the last time I checked, has the fundamental right to ensure that they have the ability to negotiate all aspects of Justice that effect the aboriginal people in question. In the case, I used an example in the Yukon where their precedent has been set where they do have the right to establish their own justice systems for the aboriginal groups in the Yukon. Here, the Department of Justice has a legitimate role to play in those negotiations. You cannot snuff it off to someone else. It is the Department of Justice's budget that will have to allocate and distribute those funds for the administration of the courts, the correction facilities if they are established through that system and also, the overall costs of operations and maintenance and administration of that system once it is established. I find it appalling to have to say that you do not have a role in regard to the aboriginal self-government initiative which is established through section 35 of the Canadian Constitution. It recognized the inherent right for people to negotiate that. They are negotiating in the provinces; they are negotiating on reserves; they are negotiating through land claims agreements such as the umbrella agreements in the Yukon in regard to looking at justice arrangements in British Columbia and right across the country. This government does have a role to play in regard to the processes that are in place now and if we do not, come right out and say it, my view is there is a role for this government to play.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
That is a third party. What is the rule here, Mr. Minister?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you. If I could just clarify before Mr. Cooper makes a comment on this, I did not say that we do not have a role. It is that we do not have a lead role. The Department of Justice is very interested and involved in this government's role in the self-government negotiations. I, as a Minister, as a member of the Constitutional Affairs Committee of the Cabinet, and as is the deputy minister very deeply involved with the Constitutional Affairs Committee. We did state that we have three lawyers dedicated to this side of the self-government negotiations. What we were clarifying is what specific role do we play in this process. I would like to ask Mr. Cooper to add a bit more detail to that.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Cooper.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Cooper
Mr. Chairman, I would just add that the Department of Justice is a service department. We have legal registries and courts, policing, corrections, coroners, labour standards and so on. We have a role to play and have been at some preliminary negotiations at the Beaudel table. All departments are being called upon to attend those negotiations to discuss within a framework agreement which was negotiated among the three parties, what and how could be transferred or devolved to the claimant group. We are in negotiations as a department, but to date, it has been more of an exchange of information session and identifying areas where the claimant group would like to be involved and examining some of the aspects of that involvement in terms of its pragmatism and whether or not it would make sense to take over legal registries, or whether or not the claimant group would want to take over legal registries and that sort of thing. We are not there as political advocates for our own department. Others in Ottawa and this government's Cabinet have decided the extent to which perhaps justice, education, health and some of the other housing, these powers and responsibilities will be transferred to the claimant groups and not this particular department. The Member is correct to say we are involved in the negotiation, but we have not set or tried to set the political agenda.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Your time is up, Mr. Krutko. Directorate, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance. Mr. Krutko.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister clarify exactly what the aboriginal justice directorate for administration of justice does?