Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I have said many times in the House, the department needs to be able to demonstrate to the public that what it is doing has value. We do recognize that we have to find more and better indicators of what constitutes success. There was an underlying theme in the Member's question, though that causes me a bit of concern, particularly coming from Mr. Miltenberger. I am a little surprised because it seems to imply that there is more value in somebody coming out of the system and going on to become a doctor than there is in becoming a journeyman certified carpenter. From what I have seen of the future job market in the north, I would have to say that we cannot put enough emphasis on trades training in the future. I would just like to make sure that we all remember that the numbers of doctors that we are going to see in the Northwest Territories compared to the numbers of carpenters who will be able to find work will differ greatly in the ratio. There will be fewer doctors than there will be carpenters and we need to recognize where the opportunities are.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not know if I could actually say that the Minister is imputing motive here, but we will not push that particular issue. There is a concern, I mean, we all talk about productive choices. If you graduate with a full slate of level 30 courses, then to me, you have more productive choices. I am not trying to imply in any way that being a university graduate is better or worse than a tradesman, far from it, but I do know that if you have that many extra doors that you can go through, you have more opportunity, which is my point, that not everybody will go on to university. If we could track that, if we knew that and if those who are given the highest quality, then they have that choice, which they may not have otherwise. If we cannot track that, we do not know. By no stretch am I trying to denigrate any particular occupation.

If I could in my time left, Mr. Chairman, I would like to just quickly ask some questions about inclusive schooling and the ballooning special needs part of that particular mandate. How can you have a formula to anticipate these ever increasing special needs requirements in schools? Has there ever been a review to see what kind of justice is, in fact, done to all the students concerned? Does the teacher end up, in some cases, devoting all their time, if they do not have an adequate support, to those requiring the most need and those requiring just a good general education sort of slide by without the proper attention? I think this is a really important area. I know Mr. Picco went to his workshop, but I am interested for my own experience, especially on the special needs side and the incredible stress it places on the system, especially when there is not enough money for special needs assistants to the level that seems to be required. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There has not been a formal study to assess that issue. I know that there is anecdotal information that would indicate that it is a concern and it is certainly something we have heard not just from teachers, but from divisional education councils, that they are feeling a significant stress dealing with special needs students. The department has recognized the importance of trying to provide services at an increased level for special needs students and, in spite of reductions in other areas of the formula, have found ways to increase funding for special needs students within the formula. We are told by divisional education councils that it is still not enough to provide the level of services that are required, but, as I say, we have certainly done what we can to provide as much of the funding that we can and are continuing to look for ways to redirect funding in that area. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the things that I clearly remember after these many decades when I went to university, is what a sociology professor told me and that is that education is the trendiest profession that there is. It always sort of chases after what is the latest and greatest. I do not know if this is an instance of that, but I do remember in my own time when we used to have separate classes and alternative programming and they had them all in separate sections of the school in Fort Smith. Now we have come back where there is inclusive schooling. I, as well, have heard a lot of anecdotal accounts of the stress that this inclusive schooling approach places on the system. Given the fact that, obviously the Minister has heard it too, we have had this with us for some time now, is there not a benefit to taking a look at this and maybe it is not an either/or system or situation, but a way of adding to or complementing this attempt to ensure that, in fact, we do not burn out the teachers, that special needs students get attention, but so do the vast majority of other regular students. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that, from all the teachers I have talked to and all the divisional education councils and people I have talked to, the support is there from everybody for inclusive schooling. Nobody wants to go back to the pullout system. What they say is, make sure that we have adequate supports in the classroom to deliver the program. I think, working with our partners, the divisional education councils, that we will have to see what we can do to achieve that. I think that there are a number of small scale programs that work. I have seen, for instance, in Hay River, a program where volunteers come into the school and work improving literacy skills with children. We may have to work with communities to find ways such as that to augment services that we provide. That is the sort of support where you can get one, two or three children into a small group with somebody working with them for short periods of time, not a completely segregated program, but where they get additional supports to bring their skill levels up. I think that if we can find ways to improve on that, we will be more successful.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my question is in regard to the delivery of programs, kindergarten to grade 12, in smaller communities in relation to what is available in the larger centres. In particular, Mr. Chairman, I am referring to programs for home economics that are really not available at all in the small communities. In particular, I am referring to my home community of Tuktoyaktuk. The community has been asking the Minister now for a number of years to extend the school so that it could adequately supply programs to higher level grades. I wonder whether the department has guidelines in place as to what has to be or should be available in the schools that relate to home economics, both for girls and boys.

Mr. Chairman, could I have Mr. Cleveland answer the question please?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there is no question that in the smallest of communities, the student does not have the same access to all of the programs they do in the larger communities. That is because there are some economies of scale that you can achieve when you have 500 students as compared to a smaller number. I do not see any way we can get around that, unfortunately. I do not think that, even if we could afford to put a shop and a home economics room in every school in the Northwest Territories, we would have the funding to provide specialized teachers for those programs in every school.

Some of this is only able to come about because of the economies that divisional education councils can find in the larger schools. That might mean they are trading a larger class size for English students or math students in order to make sure they can still fund a teacher for a shop program or one of the home management programs. That is how the divisional education councils will fund those types of programs. It is a continuing challenge.

I know the Member's interest, and I recognize what he is saying in terms of the need to get a hammer into young people's hands. Maybe we are going to look there too for partnerships. I know when I was in Arviat, they have a program with a local contractor in town where the contractor has really taken the initiative to work on the space and upgrade a space that was not being used as a shop into what can now be used as a shop. They have managed to develop a tremendous partnership there that means that there is a broader access to an educational program in a small community than you might find in any other community of that size. That may be one approach. Distance education is certainly another approach, but as the Member I am sure will reply fairly quickly, sitting at a computer is not the same thing as having a hammer in your hand. I recognize that. I do not have the answer the Member is looking for, I am afraid.

Mr. Chairman, the next question would be, does the department have any plans to upgrade, to some degree, the smaller community schools? I do not expect them to be at the same level as the regional schools, but even to have the bare minimum home economic programs so that they can, at least, address that portion of the high school curriculum. I would have thought that would have been one of the priorities of the department to assure that the bare minimums are available in the communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department's priority is to start with the bare minimum in the community to make sure the program is available at a basic level. We start with the academic program first and then, over time, try to build it up so that other programs can be added. So yes, in time, it would be our intention to improve all the programming that is available in all communities. We are starting in each community from basic academic programming for high school first.