Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I would like to recommend that we continue consideration of Bill 17 and Committee Report 1-13(7).

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Is the committee agreed?

Agreed. Then we will resume with general comments under the Department of Education, Culture and Employment after a brief break. Thank you.

--Break

I would like to call the committee back to order. Would the Minister like to bring in witnesses?

Yes, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Does the committee agree?

Agreed. Thank you. Would the Sergeant-At-Arms please bring in the witnesses. Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger, could you please introduce your witnesses for the record? Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. To my left, lightly bronzed and refreshed from a quick trip to Hawaii is the deputy minister of Education, Culture and Employment Mr. Cleveland. To my right, after yesterday, slightly harried and worried looking is the director of finance from Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Devitt.

Thank you. What is the wish of the committee at this time? General comments. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Can the Minister explain the whole concept of private schooling regarding to the department of Education, Culture and Employment? I see in the budget it is $326,000, an increase from $278,000. I would like to ask the Minister, is that used for students when they do home education?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The money for private schools goes mainly to denominational schools such as Pentecostal College in Fort Smith. Apparently there is a Pentecostal College in Fort Smith, but they do not get funding. The deputy has indicated that there is a Christian school in Yellowknife. So that I get the details right, I will ask the deputy to respond.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Cleveland.

Thank you, Mr. Cleveland. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Could the Minister tell me also in regards to private schooling, it references the Western Arctic Leaders' Program. How much of the $326,000 is for that program in Fort Smith?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The funding is $165,000 approximately, including the funding for the building.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The $165,000 does not include the housing of the students for that program. What is the total cost of running that program in Fort Smith?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

The Department of Education contributes $166,000.

Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Could the Minister tell me where do the majority of the students for this Western Arctic Leaders' Program come from?

Mr. Miltenberger.

The students, depending on the year, come from across the Western Arctic.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I find it kind of ironic that a community like Deline that is trying to get their students to larger centres such as Yellowknife to get a better education, yet we are able to fund $160,000 to a special interest group to run a similar program in Fort Smith. What is the difference between this program and a community such as Deline having the opportunity to run a similar arrangement in Yellowknife?

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The department currently assists with funding for three small residences. There is one in Fort Smith, there is one in Rae, and there is one in Fort Simpson that are run and have been running for a number of years. The Leadership Program is one of those three. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. In regards to the way those programs are funded, are they not funded through the Dogrib Divisional Board of Education and the Deh Cho Divisional Board of Education? Is that where the funding comes from?

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The deputy is more familiar with that particular funding issue than I so I will ask him to respond.

Thank you. Mr. Cleveland.

Thank you, Mr. Cleveland. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Why is there such a discretion between funding these things through the Divisional Board of Education which are allocated funds for such programs yet we are also funding a private school, an exclusive private school, to a small handful of students?

Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. It is not an exclusive private school. It is a school that has students, at this point, from all over the Western Arctic, many from small communities. Just about all of them are from small communities. It has been in operation for approximately eight years. The Dogrib currently get about $216,000 for the operation of their student residence. In addition, the department has funded the Dogrib School Board for another $553,000 for the operation of the high school programs in small communities. In the Deh Cho, they get about $88,000. In addition, the department has funded the amount of $539,000 for the operation of high school programs for smaller communities under the funding formula which the divisional board has chosen to put some of that money towards the residents. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Is the Minister or the department considering doing away with this program in light that you made the statement that the funds are already going to the Divisional Board of Education and they should be handling and maintaining their funding within budgetary items, yet we have a special category here for an interest group which is over and above those which are already being funded, so we are basically funding two groups at this time and I do not think we are fair to all the students in the Northwest Territories who may not have access to this program? On the one hand we are short of funding in our education system but yet you are still funding a so-called unique program, yet we have unique problems in all our other schools. What is so unique about this program which is costing us some $326,000 which could be better spent in the overall budget of all the divisional boards?

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I am not sure where the Member got $326,000. The Department of Education is putting in $166,000 for the running of the program and it is open to all the students and it is in the budget for this year and there is no intention to remove it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Does the Minister have a list of students and where they come from?

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I do not have the list for this year, but I have the list here up to 1998. In 1998, students came from Rae-Edzo, Tulita, Fort Resolution, Wrigley, one from Fort Smith, Fort Providence. The year before that there were students from Fort Providence, Yellowknife, Deline, Fort Good Hope, Fort McPherson. We had one from Paulatuk in 1995. The students are from across the western territory. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. What is the average number of students in any one year which are attending this program?

Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I believe the capacity of the building that they are in is for 17. I think at this point there are about 14 or 15.

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I believe that serving 14 or 15 students, yet we are having shortages of funding to assist high schools in a lot of our smaller communities. I think this money could be better spent in those communities, so at the appropriate time I will move a motion to have that program deleted from this item.

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. It is the Member's right to make whatever motion he wants. It is just gratifying to see he is consistent in his concern about issues and programs in Fort Smith. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The comments from the Minister saying I am after Fort Smith. I am not after Fort Smith. I am after trying to be fair and equitable to all students in the Northwest Territories where they all have the same education. It does not matter where they come from. Instead of having a handful of students getting special education where there are limited resources in all our classroom at this time because of the lack of funding. This is one area where I see this funding could probably be used to assist us with the problems we have in our small communities to benefit all communities and all students in the Northwest Territories. I take the remark from the Minister to be out of line, and I think that maybe he is stepping the basket from Fort Smith, being the Minister.

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. It is not really an education discussion, but if the Member wants to stand forward and make specific charges that I am, in fact, pork-barrelling then by all means stand up and cite chapter and verse. My concern about my community goes back to issues like airports where there is a move by this Member to try to remove an airport project. My concern goes back to issues attempting to shut down the fire centre in Fort Smith. I do not know if people want to consider me overly-sensitive, but the Member very clearly has made it known that a community the size of Fort Smith should be carved up obviously to his satisfaction. It is not something I am in a position to support. In fact, I am here to defend the education budget and it is a budget

for all of the students and all of the people in the Northwest Territories and the intent is to provide the best quality education we can for all those students in the Western Arctic Leadership Program. In fact, go to the school in Fort Smith, they do not get a special education that is not open to all other students in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. I will have to recognize the clock now and come back to Mr. Krutko for further general comments, later if he wishes. I have on the list, Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The Member made statements and comments yesterday and raised this concern about not forcing those students that would benefit from a different approach to education and then rather than trying to force them through the academic stream. We have noted those concerns. He has made references now to the issue of social passing. I shared this document with all of the MLAs, it is called, Promoting Achievement in School and What Works. I would ask that the Members take time to read it. The point that the Member raises is a good one that social passing is considered only marginally better than keeping children back a grade. Both are considered less than satisfactory. Ideally the situation would be the system has enough funds where work can be done to keep children at the grade they are at and move them through the system. So, it is an issue that we are aware of and that we are going to be attempting to deal with.

In regard to the shortage of funding in Yellowknife, the situation in Yellowknife is that grade 10 to 12 receive 100 percent funding and that grades K to 9 receive 75 percent funding. The other 25 percent is raised because of the size of the community and the choice of the community to move to the divisional status and greater latitude in decision making and autonomy. In fact, the information from the department is that when you combine the numbers in Yellowknife that there are about 105 percent of what other communities are receiving for funding for education. It is an issue that has been talked about, in fact, I had lunch today with both the chairpersons of YK 1 and YK 2. That was one of the issues that was touched on. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Henry. I did not follow your calculations either how you arrived at 105 percent, but I will let the Minister try and figure that one out. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. What the 105 percent is arrived at is that 75 percent funding for K to 9, the 25 percent is raised locally through education taxes, mill rate which is a trade-off for the greater autonomy and decision making. The city I understand, or the two school districts, have chosen to raise more than the 25 percent so that when you combine all the figures together they are raising closer to 30 percent. So it comes to about 105 percent. The government is throwing in 100 percent 10 to 12, 75 percent K to 9. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The first issue in regard to incentive for other communities to take on the autonomy that Yellowknife wanted, the Member is right. No other community in the North has the size or the tax base to be able to take on that kind of role. I do not anticipate it happening in any other jurisdiction outside of Yellowknife. The issue that the Member raises, we touched on briefly as well yesterday. That is Yellowknife being a magnet community. The funding, in fact, formulas do not recognize that. What is now recognized are magnet facilities. There are people and students coming in and out of town. It is an issue. Mr. Cleveland indicates that we are aware of that. It is something that as we look at the other issue of special needs we are going to be trying to address. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. I have Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Yesterday I had an opportunity to say a few words about the potential difficulty of attracting teachers to the Northwest Territories in the future, not because of where we are at, but because of competition that we potentially face by other jurisdictions, not just in Canada but internationally it appears. I am wondering if because of what I said yesterday, I know the Minister, I believe, talked about the turnover possibly being down according to their figures. Are the figures they have given me their indicators to date or is that the indicator for next year, for this coming fall? It is of concern because we have to solidify our teachers' retention rate here in the territories.

As I said, it is an international problem and several teachers that I know have in one case, one has been attracted to New Zealand and this was mid-term. In another case it is a couple and they are planning to go back to the far east. They have taught there before. There are some reasons why they are interested. They are making less money there, but just as a side note here I would like to make a comment on it because I think this is important as well. They are going there because they feel the discipline in the schools is much better there than it is in our circumstance. It is not money reasons why they are going there. It is strictly because they get more respect from the students. More respect from the parents.

Now, I am not saying that all students and all parents are disrespectful to teachers, but in their particular case it is an element of concern. A while ago I heard a comment on the radio from a person in Saskatchewan or Manitoba, I believe, a teacher commenting as well about the problem of discipline within classes and that it is leading to a problem for teachers. I guess I am addressing two questions here in one. First if I can get back to my latter comments. If I can ask the question of, are the statistics the Minister used yesterday, do they refer to the upcoming year starting this fall, is that the projection? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Yes, they do. The statistics are based on information that was supplied by the divisional education councils as of the week of May 3 to 7, 1999. What happens is that teachers have to submit their resignation by April 30, which has come and gone and we have collated the numbers since then. Yes, the numbers that I gave you yesterday are accurate unless there are unforeseen resignations which would be with prejudice and would be outside the normal process. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Despite what the statistics may be, we will have a percentage of turnover and will, no doubt, face competition to get replacements. Could the Minister tell me, do they have any concerns in that area about how to attract the turnover numbers that we have to replace for teachers?

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Miltenberger.

Yes, Madam Chairperson, we are concerned. We are aware, as the Member indicated, of the increasing scarcity of teachers available for hire in competition for their services. We are, as I indicated earlier on, myself and the other Ministers in the social envelope are looking at some of the side issues like housing and such in the small communities for essential services like teachers and nurses. We are in the midst of starting the collective bargaining process, which will, I am sure, bring a lot of concerns to the table. The turnover this year is 12 percent down from last year. Hopefully, it is a trend that will continue, but it is an issue that we are monitoring so that we can hopefully, avoid the same situation that we are in with nurses where we have to basically go into crisis mode to make sure we have enough nurses. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Ootes.

It really leads me to the question and I guess we could discuss forever and a day, how we are going to attract teachers. In the end it really boils down to teacher satisfaction. I alluded to that with my previous comments about teachers, no doubt, are becoming a little more frustrated in the classroom with the methodology of discipline and how they maintain discipline and the treatment they receive within the classroom. I had, last fall I believe, asked some questions in regard to a policy on violence in the classroom and the Minister had stated that, yes, there is a policy on violence, but the Minister, I believe, said it was left up to the boards. I wonder if the Minister can tell me if that subject has been further addressed because, to leave it up to the boards, as I stated last fall or spring, I do not think that you

can just leave that to the boards. I think there needs to be a directive to state you must have a policy on violence in the classroom and how you address that. There should be certain criteria associated with that. The object, of course, here is to provide some comfort for those who are in the teaching profession that we care about them and that there are systems in place for some protection for them. As I say, there are not perhaps tremendous widespread incidents of violence in the schools, but it does occur.

Also, I think we need to ensure the respect for teachers on the part of all students. I am sure there are a lot of students who have respect for their teachers, probably the majority, but there are those who do not. We have to ensure our system provides a mechanism to ensure that teachers are respected. I just made reference to two cases where people are leaving because they feel that in other jurisdictions they are much more respected, they have much more authority. Can the Minister tell me what the department's position is on the policy on violence in schools.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, the issue that the Member raises initially, the one of respect for the teachers by parents and students, I think is a very critical issue. It is not a money issue. It ties into the role of the family, the support at home, how close the students and parents work with the schools and the need for communities, schools, families, and DEAs to support and nurture that close working relationship to set the values and the standards of what is acceptable and what is not. It is a critical issue for a whole host of reasons, but one of the big ones is we want to have schools that are safe places, that are non-violent places of learning. The government has heard the concern.

They have funded and have now provided training for certification in crisis prevention in the schools. As of October, 1998, there was a course held in Yellowknife of which there were 28 people certified to be able to go back to their communities to start working with the students, staff, and volunteers to ensure that the schools are safe.

As well, there is work being done with the DEAs and DECs to develop student support plans that address that issue. I am also going to be meeting with the board chairs on the week of the 25th and I will be adding that to the list of issues that I would like to touch on with the various divisional boards. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. General comments. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, one of the first things I did as Minister when we received the committee report was pull out all the recommendations that were made to ensure that I could talk to the department about them. This issue of the suggestion for testing is being actively investigated. We have been looking at jurisdictions in terms of cost. One of the quotes that we have, for example, to develop our own grade 12 diploma exams, just initial discussion, is about $4.5 million. We want to do a little more homework on this. Things have been relatively hectic, but we are following up to see in fact what is doable, what the costs are and what the benefits would be. We will be sharing that information once we have it compiled. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there has once again been some initial work done on that particular recommendation which is an approach that has been used in other jurisdictions. We are looking at the literature in the field for one thing, but the other issue for us is that the majority of our schools are not at capacity, especially once the latest round of capital projects and renovations are complete. So, we anticipate that for some time to come, the issue of space and putting facilities to year-round use to help offset bulging or increased school enrolments is an issue that we do not have to face. The DEAs and DECs have been canvassed a bit as well. Their concern initially, of course, is the effect on other issues in terms of going year-round schooling, what that would mean to parents and families and even changing the hours of schooling as proved to be somewhat problematic. We have not finished the work, but we are looking at that. It is a relatively complex issue with a number of factors, as I have indicated, but once again, once we can complete the work we will be sharing that information with the committee. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may just quickly quote from this very well read, previously well read committee report I will do it at regular speed just for the sake of time. A multiple term year would allow for greater flexibility for parents, school programming, and increase the use of school buildings. The committee recommended that the department explore the option of year-round schooling and multiple shorter terms for all grades and share their findings with district education authorities. Mr. Chairman, the Members raise good points. The idea of year-round schooling, I think should be looked at, and we are going to look at it.

There are issues beyond as he indicated, the need to make sure that we use our facilities to the fullest to avoid any more capital expenditures. We will do the work that I have indicated we started on. The thing with this is that we have the time to give it careful consideration and get more input and feedback and involvement from the communities that would be using this particular innovative approach if it were to go ahead. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments? Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this process of grade extensions has been going on for almost 20 years. Between 1979 and 1988 they looked at the larger communities putting grade extensions in places like Fort Simpson, Clyde River, Arviat, Sanikiluaq and then phase two was between 1988 and 1998 . In June, 1991, the Legislature passed a motion of support to continue the grade extensions. In the west we have seen the high schools be expanded and developed in Rae, Fort Good Hope, Fort Providence, Aklavik, McPherson, Liard, Deline, Norman Wells, Resolution, Tulita, Wha Ti, Paulatuk, Sachs Harbour, Tsiigehtchic and Kakisa. It has been a process that has had its problems. The Members raised issues of concern over the quality of the education, the variety, the breadth of the curriculum. This is one of the issues that given the fact that this is now a 20 year process it is being looked at as part of the strategic plan, the longer term and where do we go from here and how do we improve on that.

At this juncture there are some very small communities that do not have grade extensions and we have to look at the cost and the impact of trying to do that. We do have the three residences that I mentioned earlier. We are looking at this. The Minister's forum information is being looked at. We think that it has been a wise decision, not without, as I indicated, its shortfalls but a better course of action than what was there 20 some years ago with the large residences and all the attendant difficulties and problems that have come out of that. We are going to be taking a very serious look at how we move ahead and address some of the concerns that have come up like the Members mentioned. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments? Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had a chance to make a few general comments yesterday but I have a few more that I would like to make today. Just in follow up a little bit to what I was talking about in the House today. The need for more funding in education is not something that has just sprung up here at the eleventh hour for the benefit of people in the gallery or for anyone's benefit. This is something that we have been talking about for over a year now and it is something that there have been at least two motions passed in this House already by a majority of Members. One was the reallocation of departmental surpluses which was passed on March 2, 1998, and a subsequent one which I spoke to in the House today which was passed on June 1, 1998, which was for the reinstatement of the 6 percent. Although some people may lead us to believe that this is just something that has cropped up here

at the last minute, this is in fact not true. This is something we have been talking about for some time. Hopefully we will be addressing the issue of the need for more funding but I also wanted to speak to a few other general areas.

In the area of special needs, this is an area that affects almost all the pressures that are on the classroom right now and we do not know the number of children in the NWT that require special needs programs. Mr. Chairman, the Ministers' Forum on Education recommended that a major research project be undertaken to determine the number of children with special needs and to gain a better understanding of the range of needs that are evident in NWT schools. Contingency funding should be available to ensure the results are addressed within an appropriate time frame.

Mr. Chairman, the Department of Education estimates that 35 to 40 percent of NWT students require special needs support and other sources indicate that the numbers may even be higher than this. Further to the department's estimates that only half the students that require special needs services, only half of the students who require them actually receive special services in our schools. This causes me some concern. If the majority of the students in the NWT have special needs, why would not the individuals without problems then become a group requiring special programming. If we have 40 to 50 percent of our students that are there with special needs, what is being done for the children as well who are in a classroom situation who are wanting to advance and progress and move on with the curriculum. Information supplied by the department indicates that only 8 percent of the monies given to schools is for inclusive education. It is very important that individuals with special needs be identified and helped earlier in their school years. If not, problems are compounded as I mentioned yesterday, and success in school for children with special needs is linked to early diagnosis and help.

On the area of special needs, I do have some questions for the Minister. Unless the magnitude of special needs in the NWT is determined, our present system will continue to be dysfunctional. Has or will the department make plans to implement a research project to determine the number of children with special needs and to gain a better understanding of the range of needs that are evident? I am not sure how they are going to do that without the people who have the expertise to diagnosis and identify special needs but, some way in working with the educators and with school boards, there must be some way of coming up with a more accurate evaluation of this problem. Could the Minister please speak to that?

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First I would just like to address the initial comments of this budgeting process. The Member is of course correct that this issue with education and shortfall has not just come up, just blossomed, in the last two weeks and yes, motions were passed in this House but those motions are only a minute part of the process for this budgeting and that for the last nine months we have been working on these budgets. The fiscal picture was painted for us by the previous Minister of Finance. The committees for the first time in the Western Territory were set up to deal with the budgets solely for the west and for nine months we have worked at that, and I was recently involved in as well.

As I indicated before, when you look at this report very clearly it addresses a lot of education issues and it addresses issues in every department and every facet of the government, but the reality is that at this eleventh hour there is a lot of passionate debate about the need for more money but no where has there been any suggestion that we should cancel Highway 3 and put that money into education or that or any kind of suggestion of that nature. So that, yes, there was a lot about the motion made but Cabinet had a role to play and the role of the committees is critical in this process and they made the recommendations which we are doing our best to act on but the Ordinary Members did not take it upon themselves to say anywhere that I have read in this, other than those motions, but when the hard detail work of budgets was being done that we should be looking at this priority, let us cancel transportation, let us cut back housing, let us role up block funding agreements with the municipalities, whatever. What we have come forward with is a balance, trying to meet competing needs and granted there is not enough money, everybody is recognizing that fact. I am happy the Member had brought this up because I want an opportunity to clarify that. There is a role for all the Members in this. There was a key critical role of the committees in this and this is a shared responsibility. The Cabinet has a decision making role but we have to be clear on where the input was and what it was.

The issue of the special needs project is going to be looked at. I committed yesterday to reviewing the issue of special needs, the fact that there is no definition of special needs. At this point it is very broad so 35 to 40 percent could encompass children at one end of the spectrum that have very mild special needs to the other end of the spectrum where there may be severe special needs requiring a full-time special needs assistant and everything in between. As the Member indicated, we do not have a clear sense of how that breaks out. We are going to look at that if, in fact, we want to plan properly we have to be able to define the problem and come up with some terms, common definitions that we can use. We are going to look at that very clearly and it is part of, once again, the strategic planning review plus the commitment I made in the House yesterday. It is going to be looked at. Once again we would like to avoid, as some Members have pointed out, spending any more money on studies and reviews and research so we want to be very careful and measure it but we want to respond in a timely fashion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The area of special needs in the classroom is no doubt something that we are going to have to take a very hard look at. I understand that special needs children, if their needs are not being met, if they are not identified and evaluated, if there is no plan of education developed for them. This, in turn, can turn into behavioural problems compounded with social passing. We just will never really get a handle on it. It also has to play a role in, as one of the Members already mentioned, the issue of the stress that is placed on the teachers and our ability to retain teachers if we do not have proper resources in the classroom so they can actually do their job. Can the Minister indicate the number of trained

special needs teachers and assistants that are presently employed by the school systems of the NWT?

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do not have that level of detail, but we will take the steps to get that. I do know, or at least I understand, that there are special needs, every divisional education council has a special needs consultant and that some training has been done, but we will commit to getting those specific numbers and I just ask the Member to clarify what she means by trained special needs teachers, just so we are clear on what we are looking for. Is it just teachers who have some training? If you could clarify that I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Clarification, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Yes. My question was trained special needs teachers and assistants, so I was asking for teachers who have specific training in the area of special needs and also trained special needs assistants who assist in the classroom who are not, perhaps, the primary teacher but assistants. So I was actually asking for both. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, thank you. The numbers I have for the 1999-2000, if this would assist the Member, is we are funding seven inclusive schooling consultants for a total of $530,000, program support teachers 37.5 PYS for $2.4 million, and then support assistants 59.25 for another $1.7 million. There are 604 PYs funded for magnet facilities that I talked about yesterday for dealing with special needs for $600 and some thousand and there is $374,000 in the budget for staff development. Another $356,000 in the budget for student transportation, $50,000 for student placements, and $100,000 for emergency southern placements, for a total of $6.5 million that I referenced yesterday.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Is there a possibility of making copies available to the Members so it would be easier for them to understand? Mr. Minister.