This is page numbers 661 - 692 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was yellowknife.

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Further Return To Question 244-13(7): Update On Adult Education Initiatives
Question 244-13(7): Update On Adult Education Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 244-13(7): Update On Adult Education Initiatives
Question 244-13(7): Update On Adult Education Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There seems to be an urgent need to address this issue and I appreciate that it will take that time. I guess my concern lies with the next step of the process. Will the Minister be then in a position to make some recommendations for the future budget for the year 2000-2001? No doubt multi-year funding and so forth will have to be taken into consideration, but possible increased funding as well. Can the Minister tell me if he will be able to initiate some action regarding the funding? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 244-13(7): Update On Adult Education Initiatives
Question 244-13(7): Update On Adult Education Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 244-13(7): Update On Adult Education Initiatives
Question 244-13(7): Update On Adult Education Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Very clearly the department will be paying very careful attention to the recommendations coming out of this work. In those recommendations, along with others in other areas, like the strategic plan in the Minister's forum. We will be attempting to incorporate the recommendations where we can and to the best of our ability for the upcoming budget and business planning process.

Further Return To Question 244-13(7): Update On Adult Education Initiatives
Question 244-13(7): Update On Adult Education Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Finance. It is in regard to former Members of this House who are finding themselves in financial difficulties because of their age or medical conditions and also not having the ability to generate an income. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance what is he doing to try and find a workable solution for former Members of this House to be able to retain their pension either by a buyout or being able to assist them because of the financial difficulties that they find themselves in now because of not being employed or not having the financial ability to be able to take care of themselves?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Krutko, I am going to rule the question out of order because it is not within the Minister of Finance's responsibility. The question is ruled out of order. Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my questions to the Minister responsible for Corrections with respect to the anticipated and planned new facilities for Yellowknife here. In his comment the Minister has said that there were compelling arguments and these arguments were reviewed. In fairness, I have to say that I do not believe that when we are talking about delivery of programs and services to Northerners that political considerations should overshadow what makes good sense in terms of serving the clients. In this case the inmates and the young offenders, but I am curious when we keep hearing that this was cheaper and there were compelling arguments, were these arguments only put forward and were these prices only put forward? We know that prices put forward by departments on capital projects can be very subjective. When you get out there and you actually go to tender, sometimes it can be substantially different. It sounds like this is the basis. It sounds like it was price, availability of services, it seems like the young offenders facility we are putting that in with the adult facility has helped to shore up the whole viability of the new construction. Are the arguments that came forward only arguments that were presented by senior bureaucrats within the Department of Justice? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The decision, as I have said earlier, to locate the young offenders facility for young males, for that facility to be located in Yellowknife was made a year ago by this government, by this Cabinet and approved by the Financial Management Board. That, in my view, is a decision that I as a Minister am compelled to support and try to implement. A decision to do major renovations to the tune of $30 million over seven years to the adult correctional male facility was also made 11 months ago or ten months ago, September of 1998, by Cabinet and FMB. Again, as a Minister, I am compelled to carry out the decisions of Cabinet and the Financial Management Board and this is what I have done.

I have also, as a new Minister of Justice, met with my deputy minister a week after I was assigned this portfolio and the very first thing I asked him were questions about the plans to do major renovations to the adult facility here, the reasons why decisions were made to locate the young female offenders facility in Inuvik and why a young male offenders facility was going to be located in Yellowknife. As a Minister, I took the opportunity to revisit those decisions, why the decisions were made in the first place, when they were made and the reasons on which the Cabinet and the Financial Management Board of the day made their decision.

I took into account that we have also been served notice that we have shrinking financial resources as a government. We have a fire marshal order that must be met within two years. We have a service agreement with Nunavut that must be honoured and complied with. We also have a desire to increase the number of federal inmates, most of whom are aboriginal from our constituencies, who we would like to have the flexibility to take into our correctional facilities. Right now that number is capped at 20, it means of all federal inmates who are sent down south, a maximum of only 20 can be taken by our correctional facility. We are seeking to lift that so that we can, in fact, take more of northern federal inmates back into our correctional facilities.

Those are the reasons in general terms as to why I have chosen as a Minister, not to have the audacity to ask Cabinet to make decisions that could unravel a whole range of other capital projects just so I would have the satisfaction of presenting my arguments. Thank you.

Return To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am hearing somewhat of a contradiction here because the Minister does not believe that he would have the audacity to suggest that a bad decision be changed. The renovation decision, obviously, was a bad decision because now we are going with a capital project. It was an incorrect decision made by a previous government right? But maybe the decision to locate the young offenders facility in Yellowknife instead of Hay River was also a bad decision. How do get input into that? To be honest, I agree with the Minister, the decision was made

by the previous government and a previous Minister and I took exception to the fact that a Nunavut Minister was making decisions on such major long reaching, we were going to live with these decisions for years to come. I was not in a good position to appeal to that Minister and, if it had been a bad decision, I had hoped that it could be revisited with all the compelling arguments.

We are hearing about, again, services available, cost, how it complements the other facility, those arguments can be made for other communities as well. I am hearing somewhat of a contradiction here because a bad decision was changed but the location on the young offenders could not be changed. What I am asking the Minister now is, was there, and I know this sounds repetitive as Mr. Morin may have asked this too, but was there an opportunity for anyone outside of Cabinet and the bureaucracy to make those compelling arguments which would have made good sense? Thirty million dollars is a savings, savings to what? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the things I like about the idea of combining the two facilities is that the young offenders not only get the gymnasium, because under the original plan there was no gymnasium made available to the young offenders. The decision to combine the two also will deliver the two projects within a four year period instead of seven and within the financial commitment made by Cabinet and this Legislature. As you know, there was a commitment of about $28 million made by this government to be expended over seven years for the adult facility and a little over $6 million was committed for the construction of the young adult facility. We know now that by combining it can be done within the financial commitments made by this government.

I know that there is no time to ask and consult MLAs and communities about where else we could possibly locate this one facility let alone two facilities. We are under a commitment to construct facilities that are urgently required by our young male offenders. We have an order by the fire marshal and we are compelled to provide good, decent, adequate accommodations and facilities for our adult male offenders who are now housed in substandard, inadequate, overcrowded facilities. Members have taken the time to see for themselves and that it is urgent to do it and I would say that the general public is in support of keeping those facilities here because it makes many things much more possible for the people who are going to be incarcerated in those facilities. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister says that he likes the location of Yellowknife because they can have a gymnasium. There is no law against building gymnasiums in other communities. As a matter of fact, land costs and construction costs, the cost of building a gymnasium is substantially less in Hay River than it is in Yellowknife. But, leave the adult facility here, okay, and I agree it is urgent now to build this facility. It should have been urgent a long time ago, I have seen that facility, it is bad, I have been there. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I had a person from Yellowknife call me as an MLA asking me how they could get their relative into the Hay River Correctional Facility because they did not want them going into this one here because it was so bad. They were going to have to travel to Hay River to visit this relative, had no problem with that.

Anyway, my question to the Minister is leave the adult facility here, why cannot the issue of where the young offenders facility be revisited and perhaps look at attaching it with a gymnasium to a minimum security facility as opposed to a medium facility such as you have here in Yellowknife? I cannot see any reason why this facility has to go in Yellowknife. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have asked Cabinet if they were prepared to revisit these decisions and whether or not they were still in support of the original decisions made by Cabinet and FMB last year, and the answer is yes, the Cabinet supports the decisions and the direction that I have taken as a Minister and the decisions that we have made on June 4. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For clarification then, Mr. Speaker, what the Minister is saying is that the Cabinet is willing to revisit the bad decision made about the renovation and replace it with a new capital project but they are not willing to revisit the bad decision made to locate the young offenders facility here in Yellowknife as opposed to Hay River where it was supposed to be. They are not willing to revisit that regardless of any good and compelling arguments, cost-saving services, all those things which would be good for the inmates, good for the children which are going to be in this facility. What they are trying to say and what the Minister is confirming to me is that they are absolutely not interested in hearing any of the arguments, that it is a political decision. It is going in Yellowknife. Is that what the Minister is saying? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What I am saying is that I have looked at the decisions made, and I feel that I support the Cabinet decisions and the decisions by FMB and the decisions made by this Legislature to go ahead with the construction of these facilities together. We have to do it now.

We cannot keep revisiting every decision that is made, because everything else ties to it. For instance, there was a decision made to build a young female offenders facility in Inuvik. Do you want to revisit that too? I have not heard anybody say that yet. Are some things sacrosanct and others are not? Is there a level playing field here?

I come from a small community, much smaller than most of yours, so I take great interest in knowing why decisions are made the way they are, especially in capital projects. But I do know that there is no way that Fort Good Hope could ever rationally ask for a facility like this to be built, because there are no services there, because of the cost, because of the kind of support that inmates would require. In the interests of the inmates themselves, it has to be located in a place like this where it is accessible, where there is access to programs. Also, we need to build these things now. We cannot keep revisiting it. As I said, I have taken the personal liberty as a Minister to review these decisions, and I have taken a lot of time to do it. I have made a point to travel to Lethbridge, to Calgary, to Red Deer to visit facilities, to see what arguments could be made to support those that were being made by my officials. Very reluctantly, in the latter part of May, I conceded that these were good points that were made. The time to revisit decisions is long gone. We are compelled by government to act and to be decisive about it, and that is exactly what we are doing. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Question 246-13(7): Rationale For Correctional Centre Decision
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus.

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. It is in relation to his statement today about supporting students attending post-secondary programs. Mr. Speaker, I notice that in the area of increasing the level of support available to each student of student financial assistance dollar wise, the department is working on the details and hopes that changes can be made for the 2000 school year. Mr. Speaker, I was at a conference in the Metis Nation annual assembly of September of last year where the then Minister of Education talked about a master plan that he had which was basically finalized. They just had to draft the legislation, and we would have had more money in the hands of students for this year. I would like to know what has happened. Why has this not come forward, the increases to student financial assistance? Why has that not come forward for this year? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Miltenberger.