Mr. Chairman, yes, I think there are two sides to this and one, of course, is Municipal and Community Affairs responsibility with the sanction of the Financial Management Board to work with these communities to ensure that they are managing their revenues from our government responsibly. Municipal and Community Affairs does that. As they find communities are getting themselves into accumulated deficit situations, they work with them on revising the budget, they do recovery plans with them and revised operating plans and so on. They work with them on that side.

One of the first issues that we ran into as a new government, almost a year ago now, was the question of whether or not the financing to municipalities was adequate. We have been looking at that one and I can assure the Member that we take that situation seriously and we will continue to look at how we can improve that side as well. If the money is not adequate, then we have to do something there. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister stated the question about monies are not adequate. I would like to ask the Minister, what is the process to ensure communities can receive the resources that they need to make sure that the dollars are adequate? Do they come forth through a supplementary appropriation to do that?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, Municipal and Community Affairs are working on a new municipal financing arrangement and hopefully we can see some developments on that side.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Could the Minister tell us if Municipal and Community Affairs is going to be coming forth to assist those other communities he mentioned through this process, to ensure that they have a way of receiving supplementaries where they are able to have that debt recovery, and also that they are able to write-off some of their debt through a supplementary appropriation? Does the Minister know if the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs is going to be doing that?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, Municipal and Community Affairs is working with the other three communities to help them to manage their way out of their accumulated deficit situation. They are working with them on revised budgets. They are working with them on revised operating plans. I assume that if those efforts are successful, then there is no need to bring the circumstance back to the government for additional money to bail them out. Our first effort is to help the municipality to work their way out of this situation. Most municipalities, if not all of them, want to do it that way. We would only step in if everything else fails. There is not much choice. If the choice is either we step in and help as we did in Rae-Edzo or else we send in an administrator, this is a last resort that we ever want.

In terms of the financing arrangement that Municipal and Community Affairs is working on, that is an arrangement that will look at financing and make sure that it is adequate from here on. It is not a financing formula to help get them out of their deficit. It is to make sure that they have enough money from here on. Hopefully Municipal and Community Affairs is successful in their efforts in working with the communities and they do not have to bring it back here. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Fort Simpson, I know for a fact, has been receiving infrastructure funding for the last number of years. That was the excuse that we heard in this House that the reason they were getting it was because they were having a deficit situation. This goes back four or five years. I would like to ask the Minister, if you are saying that this is to help get them back on their feet, why is it that we are saying these communities are still in debt knowing that they had a debt problem to begin with?

Something must not be right here if they continue to be in debt to the range of almost $650,000. We have given them millions of dollars through infrastructure funding to assist them with capital projects and what not. I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Finance, exactly what is your department doing to review these situations so they do not go on for five or six years? We continue to see these communities getting deeper and deeper in debt and the government is not responding to them when they are calling for help. McPherson is calling for help and I do not see much help coming at this time.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

Municipal and Community Affairs are working on a new municipal financing arrangement and I think that is the relief for any communities who are not getting a fair arrangement up to now. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

I asked a question to the Minister. I do not believe that I got an answer. I asked if he is aware of the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs coming forth requesting any more supplementary dollars to assist communities getting out of their debt? Is he aware, or has he received any requests from the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs to assist communities with their debt problems?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, I am not aware of any. I am sure that the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs is here. It depends on the analysis of each of these situations, and how severe they are, whether the efforts by Municipal and Community Affairs are working, so I do not think that he is going to jump quickly to come here. He will, through his department, work it through the normal channels of helping the community to work their way out of their deficit situation. If that is impossible, then, as I say, there is not a lot of alternative. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you. A final question. We talk about fairness in this government and being fair to all people, communities and what not, so I just want to ask the Minister responsible for Finance, is that taken into the picture in regard to when you review what is acceptable and what is not for a supplementary?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

Certainly, Mr. Chairman. We always try to be fair to all communities. There is no effort to do anything else. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Braden.

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. My colleagues have covered off a lot of the bases that I was concerned with on this issue as well. There is the aspect that I would like to underline on accountability. We are in an age, politically and economically, where the demands from constituents and the systems that are around the Auditor General. We are living in multitudes of fishbowls and everybody wants to make sure that they can see everything that is being done and that there are checks and balances that will make sure that if and when problems do occur, and let us recognize that they will. That the issue is not so much why did this happen, but it is how are we managing our way through it.

The particular case that we have here where $405,000 is being requested against the total debt of $450,000 approximately is quite a stretch for me, Mr. Chairman. We are going to use public money that is in pretty short supply around here to satisfy arguably 85 or 90 percent of a community's debt problem. That, to me, does not really indicate that the department is looking hard enough internally to find other existing resources, or that the community has been worked with to find out what kind of resources it might bring into play. We are really going a very long, long way to restore the things in the hamlet and I think that it is just pushing it a bit too much to take that much of the public purse to satisfy this problem.

With three other communities also having difficulty along with Rae, that is about $1.2 million in debt problems the communities are having, and Mr. Bell pointed out very clearly what's going to be the consequence if one person gets it or another and another is in the wings.

Mr. Handley and Mr. Allen have tried to demonstrate that there is a new regime in place, that there are new and effective mechanisms to turn this around and make sure it does not happen. I am optimistic that these will work, but I think the proof is going to be in reports that we get six months or a year from now on how these communities are doing and whether they are turning a corner.

If I have a further question to add to the discussion, Mr. Chairman, it would be, can the Minister tell us if a $400,000 recovery plan of public funds is really realistic given that the total debt is $450,000? Are we not going too far? Thank you.