This is page numbers 1265 - 1329 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Highways activities is found on page 10-15, detail. General comments? Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I would just like to ask a question of the Minister if he had a chance to talk to his federal counterparts, the whole area, the sort of defence shield we have in North America, especially the coastal line in the Arctic. I believe the federal government has cut back drastically in regard to their flights over the Arctic to monitor our coastline. I believe they were flying about 500 hours a year and now they are down to 40 hours a year. I would like to ask the Minister, has he had a chance to talk to his federal counterparts?

My concern is with the activity happening in the Beaufort Sea and the residents of the people who do use the coastline. The regular flights over the coastline are very important to ensure that we secure the public and that safety and secure our coastline.

I believe last year there was a cruise ship that pulled up into Tuktoyaktuk Harbour, in which the Canadian Government and the people in immigration were not even aware that this ship was in Canadian waters.

I would just like to ask the Minister, have you had a chance to talk to the federal government in regard to our coastline to ensure we are protected? Have you had a chance to talk to the government? There have been some major cutbacks in regard to the coastline protection we have out there.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

February 26th, 2001

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I have to assume the Member is referring to the operations of the Coast Guard in the Beaufort. I will refer the question to Mr. Vician, as we have been in contact with them in regard to the reduction of service by the Coast Guard. It was referencing ice-breaking capability rather than defence, or in this particular case, the Member is referring to immigration. I have no idea what the federal government is doing in that capacity. We have only been talking to them in referencing their patrols with their ice-breakers. I will ask Mr. Vician if he can update us on that.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Vician.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vician

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will only add to the Minister's comments that we have had ongoing discussions with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, in particular the Canadian Coast Guard branch of DFO, with regard to the presence of ice-breaker support in the Beaufort Delta over the past many years.

We understand at this point in time there is a commitment to ice-breaker services in the Beaufort Delta and continuing on with that ice-breaker support is the overall oversight with regard to coastal water, observation protection, response to emergencies that the federal government does continue to have responsibility for.

In that context, we continue to have discussions with the Canadian Coast Guard to continue with their support of protection of our coastal areas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Vician. Again, I would like to caution Members to keep their specific questions to activities when we get to them. Mr. Nitah, general comments.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thought we were on page 10-11. I wanted to go back there. It is dealing with airports, Mr. Chairman, and air transportation in the Northwest Territories.

As the chairman and the Minister would agree, air transportation is a major form of transportation in and around the North Slave and in and around the Northwest Territories, specifically to small, aboriginal communities.

I just returned from Lutselk'e this afternoon at one o'clock. By twelve o'clock, there were five planes into Lutselk'e already. I understand part of the responsibility of the department is to monitor other government legislation by other governments. Further responsibilities overall trends in air transportation safety, infrastructure, technology development, change in opportunities, et cetera.

I just want to know if the department can tell me what legislation is out there to determine that a safety crew, a firefighter crew needs to be at ground level when there is a certain amount of traffic into one particular airport. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Nitah, would you be willing to hold your line of questioning until we get to the section on airports?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

I am willing. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Do you have any further general comments for the department? Mr. Nitah.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

No, I do not have any general comments for the Minister. I think we will cover it through the detail. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Any further general comments? Mr. Lafferty.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some comments. I referred to some of them yesterday, but I will just do a short summary.

I look at the studies and the strategies of the highway. I look at the highway toll, the $100 million that they are putting towards it. By approving this year's budget, I see that we are going to start the process without any intentions or any future plans of the communities that are without all-year access. I do not agree with the budget the way it is, or with the studies and strategies that they have out there. It is hard for me to approve a budget that is leaving certain people out, certain communities out of the future plans of this $100 million we are putting back into the Highway Strategy.

I see communities out there with only air service and maybe one week or two weeks of winter road. Some of them do not get winter roads at all. I see them paying extra freight and extra for all the food and deliveries. I know they get subsidized, but they are paying two or three times higher than people who are living in Yellowknife or in Hay River or in Rae. I do not think it is fair that we are going to make them pay for the extra cost, which is the result of a toll. Rather, I think we should be including them in our plans.

The plan that should be there is to make sure they have an all-year access road or even a feasibility study towards putting a road into these communities. The road can be called any road you want. Those roads that I am talking about could be alternate routes in case we do not have a winter road.

As you know, everybody all over the world is talking about global warming. We see it now. The temperature in Fort Providence today is minus two and this is February, the third week. That is not a normal temperature to have at this time of the year. The last four or five years, we have seen rain in February, rain in January. We are not looking at the future. We are just looking at the existing infrastructure. If we are going to charge a toll to these communities that are not connected by a road, then we should be giving something back to them. If we cannot give them anything back, then we should not be putting a toll on anything which, as the result of the toll, will make them pay higher costs for everything.

All I can say about the strategies and the studies that Transportation has done since 1990 that I have seen, it all leads to making Yellowknife a lot richer. All the money is being put onto highways to campgrounds past Yellowknife. You see about $3,000 signs along the Ingraham Trail. That money could be used for a feasibility study to put an all-weather road into Aklavik.

We were elected by the people to work for the people, not for industry or the campers at Prelude Lake or Cameron River. We were elected by everyone in the Territories. We have to make sure that they have road access. We have to make sure they do not have a higher cost of living. It says when we made our vow that everybody would be treated equally and fairly. Where is the fairness? Where is the equality? There is not any fairness and equality when I see a study by Transportation excluding people. There is no equality there.

It is not fair to ask them to pay extra for Highway No. 3 that leads to Yellowknife. Kakisa is not getting anything. Hay River is not getting anything. I see Aklavik is not getting an all-weather road. I do not see Wekweti getting a winter road next year. We were lucky to get one this year. They are going to be paying the extra costs because of a toll.

So I think this department must look at a future plan. You are going to put $100 million towards a highway strategy, well, let us look at other roads. I know you are going to say it is the federal government's responsibility. In 1990, studies show that the federal government said they will work in partnership if there are resources at the end. Whether their resources are feasible or not, they will support putting a road in, in partnership with the territorial government. I was lucky to get that book today and I had about 15 minutes to read a little bit and I have not finished it, but if I had the time, I think I would have had a lot more comments on this.

If we are going to approve this, we are making a mistake. If we do not have a plan that reaches these communities, then it is not a plan. It is just regular O and M. That is it. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. General comments. Mr. Minister, do you want to respond to any of those? Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, if there are no other general comments, I can respond.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Any further general comments? Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I would like to know from the department, do we have engineers in-house that do different studies and strategies such as bridges, construction with regard to road construction. We have a lot of technical and resource people out there. I am just wondering why this government does not seem to have the information or the data that is there when it comes to making these decisions. They use large numbers like $30 million for specific bridges or $60 million to put a bridge on the Mackenzie. How do you come up with these numbers if you do not actually do a feasibility study?

You guys throw these big numbers around, but do you have any data to back up the information so when you do come out saying this is a $100 million project, do you have actual valuated reports that tell you how much it is going to cost to build a road or a bridge over a half-a-kilometre river?

When you make these statements with regard to the cost that is associated with some particular item where you are not able to carry out because the cost is too high, without having the actual valuation or study to get down to the logistical numbers...who within your department comes up with these numbers that you present to the committees and is able to justify those numbers that you use?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, again, this question is really directed to highways. I would prefer the question was redirected to us when we reach that detail or that activity.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I am not too sure if the Minister does not know the question or he does not have the answer. The answer is pretty specific. Do we have people within the department that have engineering skills that can actually valuate or come up with a number that is specifically stated in a budget or in a report that comes from your department, so they can back up the numbers? It is no big deal. You as a Minister are responsible for your department and the people in your department. If you are not sure what your department is doing or what people are doing within your department, I think there is something wrong with the department. Can the Minister answer the question because they should have people within the department? It is big enough. We are spending $70 million. I would like to know how you justify the amounts that come out of this department.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. This seems to be a bit beyond one specific project. I would ask Mr. Minister to respond.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, as well as having engineers on staff, the department also uses consultants to do some work for us. We do not necessarily have to go through a full feasibility study in order to arrive at a conclusion. We do have historical data. We do have information before us that can give us a basic preliminary estimate of what a bridge would cost to put in place. We do have that information on hand and we do have those kind of people on side.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Krutko.