Mr. Chairman, I believe we have advised the community of Aklavik in the past and we still hold the position that an all-weather road into Aklavik is $100 million. At this present time, as I said earlier, there are two things we have to deal with first. One is the fact that Indian Affairs is responsible for a new road such as that one. The other thing is how do we convince them that Indian Affairs come forward with this plan?

What we have been doing is using similar approaches to the bridge program in the Mackenzie Valley as a possibility of convincing Indian Affairs to build new roads into communities. The response we have received, as I told the Member earlier, from Indian Affairs is there has to be some indication that the benefit for the construction of the road would not only serve the social aspects of the road or the need for the road, but also there would be some indication that there would be some economic development benefits from this particular road. That is what we are facing with Indian Affairs right now.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Krutko.

The Minister keeps referring to this decision from Indian Affairs. Is that a written decision in the form of a letter?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Steen.

No, Mr. Chairman, it is not a letter.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Krutko.

Well, is it written down anywhere that this is the federal government's position and they are not going to move on it? You are making it sound like this is what the federal government has said and that is the end of it. You referred to it a couple of times already. I am just wondering, is that through a written request? What kind of notification did we get on that? Was that a verbal statement or was that a letter you received from the Minister of Indian Affairs, or someone from your Department of Transportation to people in Ottawa?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Steen.

Mr. Chairman, there are different ways of looking at this, I suppose. The Highway Transfer Agreement we have with the federal government says that the federal government is responsible for new roads. The approach we have been using with Indian Affairs is under the Community Aboriginal Economic Development Program. Really, this program is a program that is administered through the Department of Economic Development. We have been putting proposals to Economic Development as things to consider while we are getting funding from Indian Affairs towards our Non-Renewable Resource Strategy. That is the approach we have been using.

Another reason why they may come to the conclusion that Indian Affairs has no program in place which specifically identifies that they will fund 100 percent of any project. The only program that I have read, that I have seen from Indian Affairs suggests that there has to be partnerships, there has to be a certain amount of other funding rather than strictly Indian Affairs funding.

The approach we have taken is through the Community Aboriginal Economic Development Program. The program is open to any community or any aboriginal group as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Krutko.

I think this is something that we as a government have to seriously look at. We have to consider the safety factor of the residents we serve, but also realizing that the greenhouse effect we are seeing in the North is more drastic than we expected and it is coming on to us pretty fast. Even right now, we cannot get any heavy equipment on to the road to Aklavik because it will just not hold that weight. We are only open to light traffic.

From what we have seen in other areas, sooner or later we will have to take steps to deal with the public safety question. When people start going through the ice and eventually people's lives are lost, we are responsible as a government, especially if those roads are our responsibility under the NWT Highways Act. It is the winter roads we presently have jurisdiction on.

I think we have to look at alternatives. We will have to look at alternative roads, for instance, or find a safer means for going from point A to point B. I would like to ask the Minister, have you looked at the possibility of having to reroute some of these existing winter roads that we have in place, or having to realign them so we are able to not deal with those sections of the road where we know it is hazardous? I am talking more in line with the Delta right now, because I know for a fact that the road to Aklavik has had some problems. Vehicles have gone through the ice. I think that because of not having the amount of snow this year, we are not able to get the heavy equipment on that.

Has the department looked at the possibility of looking at alternative routes than the one that is in use today, so that we have to take into account public safety when it comes to constructing these roads?

Mr. Chairman, I understand the Member's concern. It is the same concern that was expressed by Mr. Lafferty from the North Slave. The department has had problems putting in the roads to some of the communities on the winter road system. We are working with the contractors to try to come up with ways whereby we can construct these roads, even though we have to still deal with the changes in weather patterns.

I would say it is very difficult to try and suggest a different route, whereby we are going to have different ice conditions when we are all talking about the same river. You cannot get to Aklavik on a winter road except by river. You have to cross a river somewhere.

I do not know if the Member is suggesting here that we are going to deal with different rivers or whether we take under consideration that we build a winter road over land. The department has not been considering that aspect of it yet.

What Mr. Lafferty is suggesting is in fact that the department may want to consider a land route as a winter road route. I believe he is referring to a route that used to exist at one time. I can assure the Member that if this is what we are going to have to do, then this is what the department will do. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Anyone else have general comments? Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. General comments? That is it for general comments. Does the committee wish to proceed to detail? Mr. Krutko, are you on general comments?

I just want clarification on the point the Minister made in regard to a question I asked him earlier.

Okay. Mr. Krutko.

In regard to the Minister's comments that he was not too sure which rivers or how he was going to get around it, in regard to the road to Aklavik, there are two dry back channels people go through, the Schooner and the Bombardier Channels, which are the two channels they seem to have real problems with because it is sort of a fast moving creek and you are not getting the ice that you need. That seems to be where a lot of these instances with vehicles going through have taken place.

When I talk about looking at alternative channels or routes, or having to go over land or have them make a trail through a cut line or what not to get through these different sections...we are talking about just two channels here, but that is where the majority of the problems we are having on these winter roads are, especially from the road to Aklavik.

I am just wondering, as the Minister is aware of these areas, those are the type of problem areas I mentioned. Due to the narrowness of the channels and the fast moving water through it, you are not able to build ice in those channels, or that seems to be the area where you have the most overflow.

I am just wondering from the Minister...where I was coming from is that I think we should consider, in areas such as that, looking at different scenarios or strategies, is there a possibility of going around these areas? Is there a way of going over land because of having this problem on these different channels that we will be able to take into account that public safety has to be our number one priority when we realize that there is a risk associated with these two areas.

Will the Minister look at the possibility of these two particular channels to find an alternative or safer route for the public to travel through?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The short answer is yes, we will definitely work with our contractors to improve our routes so that we can have the roads open earlier and to heavier traffic.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Does the committee wish to proceed to detail? We are on page 10-9, Department of Transportation, corporate services, budget summary, operations expense, total operations expense, $7,560,000. Mr. Krutko.

With regard to corporate services, could the Minister tell me exactly who does the evaluation or come up with the decision that certain projects are feasible or not feasible? Who within corporate services is responsible for coming up with these numbers and doing these evaluations?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Vician.